To think capping child tax credits at two children will plunge more families into poverty

(450 Posts)
SoonToBeSix Sun 15-Dec-13 15:08:15

Can't link but article is in the Daily Fail. A Tory mp has proposed capping child benefit and child tax credits at two children in order to win votes.
What happens to those children whose parents circumstances change ie redundancy or there is a contraception failure?
This government is taking welfare cuts too far while continuing to let the very rich avoid paying the correct taxes.

SilverApples Sun 15-Dec-13 15:38:34

How long have child tax credits been around?
Because families having way more children than they can afford or support have been around a lot longer.

YetAnotherNN Sun 15-Dec-13 15:38:57

Yes, she is taking the piss. When she had her first she proudly told me that it was great because she could get a council house, sorry to burst your bubble but people like that do exist and if a benefits cap helps stop them then great.

perplexedpirate Sun 15-Dec-13 15:39:31

How about we scrap all child benefit?
That'd be nice and fair wouldn't it.

WelshMaenad Sun 15-Dec-13 15:42:15

Bloody Tories.

Soon, someone is going to suggest that mine and DH's wages should stop increasing by a set percentage every time we choose to have another child, and then I'll be right royally fucked off.

SilverApples Sun 15-Dec-13 15:43:31

Do you mean retrospectively, or for future, as yet unborn children?
Bit like what happened with HE then, it used to be free, now you have to get a loan and pay back.

perplexedpirate Sun 15-Dec-13 15:43:36

I did correct the 'jealousy' quote.
I said you were right and it actually said 'taking the piss', if you'd bother to read my posts properly.
I'm not sure how I've jumped to wrong conclusion.
You seen to begrudge her money from the state to feed her children. You've got more children than me, so it should follow that I begrudge it you, and people with no children begrudge it me. If we were all twats, that is.

YetAnotherNN Sun 15-Dec-13 15:44:02

I live in a country where they did scrap CB a couple of years ago. People learn manage their money better or get second part time jobs. I know plenty of people that have done this. The country couldn't afford it and health and education would suffer if they continued it so it went. After being out of the UK for the last 5 years I'm amazed at the entitledness of it. Benefits should be for those that need it, disabilities, SN etc. Not for a lifestyle choice.

stgeorgiaandthedragon Sun 15-Dec-13 15:44:17

I agree with WooWoo and Lying

YetAnotherNN Sun 15-Dec-13 15:46:31

I don't get anything from the state to feed my children. We don't earn a huge amount but we budget and manage ok. If we were in the UK we would get tax credits and child benefit which we have proven here we can manage without. So yes I think some of it is unnecessary.

perplexedpirate Sun 15-Dec-13 15:49:43

Yes, let's scrap all benefits, then, because some people don't need them.
Let's ditch the NHS, because some people go private.
And universal education. How entitled is it to expect your children to be educated?!
Behold, our brave new world!

enderwoman Sun 15-Dec-13 15:49:57

I think there needs to be exceptions like if child 2/3 are twins or if child 3+ is a foster child.
I think that this will make child poverty worse as people will make the decision to raise 3 children on the 2 children amount rather than abort if contraception fails.

WelshMaenad Sun 15-Dec-13 15:51:17

Pirate, you are David Cameron and I claim my £5. grin

YetAnotherNN Sun 15-Dec-13 15:51:54

Again you're jumping to conclusions. I do not think benefits should be scrapped, far from it. I think it should be managed better and the resources given to those who genuinely need it.

sonlypuppyfat Sun 15-Dec-13 15:52:49

I have a friend who has 8 kids and is trying for more. No one has worked in that house for years surely with the best will in the world that's not right.

YetAnotherNN Sun 15-Dec-13 15:54:05

If it's a choice between benefits for someone that can manage without/doesn't really need it or that money going towards education and healthcare then imo it should go toward the education & healthcare.

perplexedpirate Sun 15-Dec-13 15:54:31

Ha! Yep, I'm shiney Dave all right! What are you all doing on here?!
You should all be at your second part-time jobs.
Bunch of skivers...

It creates a society in which working people on low incomes are discouraged from having more than two children because they will not have adquate support from the system they pay into, should they need it.

But more well off people who have savings and can afford insurance, are able to have more than two because they have the resources to deal with a job loss/illness etc.

I am uncomfortable with a society that is, in effect, saying that those on low incomes are less deserving of having more children, than the rich.

The children in these circumstances will still have irresponsible parents whether its capped at two or not, but we as a society are adding poverty to the list of things they have to deal with. Aren't we great.

Its £13 per week per child. That's £676 per year. David Cameron probably spends close to that on one meal out at the weekend.

WooWooOwl Sun 15-Dec-13 15:57:30

I agree YetAnother. For me, it isn't about spending less tax money. I'm quite happy to be taxed and have plenty of money spent, as long as it's spent fairly and is better managed.

perplexedpirate Sun 15-Dec-13 16:00:03

Applauds Wannabe.

WelshMaenad Sun 15-Dec-13 16:01:12

Wanna, DH and I are working people on low incomes. We have two children. We will not be having more due to affordability. I'm fine with that.

We also won't be having regular breaks in the South of France because, just like a larger family, they are a luxury. A luxury we're unable to afford. Not a right. Is that, too, a societal issue? Won't someone please think of my desire for foreign holidays!!!

annieorangutan Sun 15-Dec-13 16:02:11

I really cant see this happening

WooWooOwl Sun 15-Dec-13 16:03:38

I am uncomfortable with a society that is, in effect, saying that those on low incomes are less deserving of having more children, than the rich.

I can completely understand that POV and relate to it, but at the same time, I am comfortable with a society that provides a secure safety net in times of illness, redundancy, and enables people to have two children even if they don't work.

Child tax credits are more than £13 a week per child if you're on full benefits.

notanotherusername1 Sun 15-Dec-13 16:08:42

Having 9 children with neither parent working is taking the p out of the tax payer. 9 children to support financially for dh and myself would not be possible and we both work. 3 is difficult enough so I dread to think what 9 costs. And not a penny earnt themselves. How can that seem ok to some?

Having a holiday is not a right. FWIW I have never been abroad, never been on a plane. I went on a day trip to Edinburgh once. Woo. Hoo.

Having children is something that most of us have a need to do. Are we going to stop giving couples IVF on the NHS if their income falls below a certain level? Or just stop funding IVF altogether because the world is over populated? Maybe we should sterilise those with less than 5 GCSEs at grade A*-C?

Let's not forget that as a society, we need people to have children, so we have a workforce in the future.

The Tories aim is to create a society in which a few have lots and the rest have nothing. If they keep going it won't only be benefit claimants who are targetted. It will move to anyone who doesn't earn enough to pay for their own care during pregnancy and childbirth, pensioners etc etc. It won't stop until the tories and their cronies are laughing all the way to the bank, while the rest of us eat gruel.

Darkesteyes Sun 15-Dec-13 16:12:17

If the idiots want to do this then they need to put more funding into domestic abuse services instead of cutting funding like they are doing now.
You only have to read the Relationship boards on this very site to find that there ARE abusive men out there who WILL can and DO bully their partner into having another child. Only a year ago there was a long running thread on there about this very situation THe OP in that case was asking about which contraception was easier to hide. She was too scared to have the implant in case he spotted it and she worried about hiding pills in case he found them.
If this is implemented it will harm the women and not the men. Because men like this are financially abusive too.

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