ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
To think the UK public have appalling manners on trains(70 Posts)
I am standing on a train while my children sit on the floor at my feet. Trains from euston delayed or cancelled due to awful tragedy.
We have seats reserved on this train that is running, but of course in euston it is a race to the train. Nearly every seat is filled with healthy twenty somethings, many of whom refused to move for children with reservations.
Children are swaying everywhere and these assholes stole their seats because they run faster.
I am mostly angry at cheapskate husband who wouldn't agree to hotel room
MANAlive: I've sat in seats that have been reserved by others.
Quite often the people who reserve seats will alreay be sitting in another carriage and not bother looking for their reservation or they may have caught a different train or even not travelled.
Of course, I'm very willing to give up the seat if the person comes looking for it.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
The scrum at Euston is horrific. A memorable occasion had 1 train cancelled, my train about to depart, and 2 trains arriving. The platforms were 3 consecutive numbers. They announced the platform for my train as the other 2 trains were opening their doors/getting to platform.
They had reserved carriages for people who had been bumped off an earlier train, so they were all penned at the front by the barriers, we (with tickets with reservations) were trying to get from concourse to platform and then crammed behind them. With the passengers from the arriving 2 trains all trying to cut across us.
I have mobility issues, but am fine with enough time. I am always tempted to book transport at euston though, because I find it stressful and difficult. In contrast, Victoria station once issues an apology for the late platform announcement...14 minutes before the train left!
Do you have twitter, OP? Virgin Trains are really good at responding - I once tweeted to complain about a quiet coach not being enforced (I am on the 8:07 and no train manager about) type message...she appeared about 10 minutes later and told the noisy people to shut up. May have been coincidence but I don't think so. I wasn't about to pack up all my work stuff to find her and complain, but perfectly happy to send a message to someone who would do it on my behalf!
I don't think adults should give up seats for children per se (in fact, in an unreserved seats scenario I think it should be the other way round), but obviously anyone who hasn't booked the seat they're in should give it up for the person who has.
Write to the train company, OP, and ask why there weren't any visible staff on the train to deal with these problems when they must have known that a busy delayed train would be potentially chaotic.
it penalises elderly people far more than families, though you'd have to be an utter cunt not to give up your seat to the elderly person who has reserved it, and I should think everyone else in the carriage would say so too, loudly and clearly.
YANBU to be pissed off. YABU to think that because children are involved that has anything to do with it. And you don't know that all those people were able-bodied or generally fit and well.
Glad you've got wine, the world is always a better place then!
If there were no other seats I would be prepared to let my DCs sit on my knee, squash together etc etc. (In fact I have done that - three of us on a two seat). I would expect my older DC to give up her (even reserved) seat for an older/infirm person etc...
But if there are other seats and we had reserved seats surely DCs shouldn't have to sit with strangers - or on my knee next to a stranger...squashing a stranger...
(Lovely) people have moved seats for me and my DCs when the seat reservations haven't worked and we have ended up with seats on two tables etc...
IME getting seats for the DCs is very important for the accompanying parent - I find the getting on/off trains with all the luggage extremely stressful...I usually get DCs sat down, then stow the luggage..having to argue over where they can sit is an extra stress I could do without...
(and agree Macdonald's DD was not rude - the toddler could have sat with the rest of the group)
I travelled from York to London yesterday with 2 reserved seats at a table. When we got on 2 girls were sat at the table with SO MUCH STUFF in our seats. They "didn't think anyone would be sat there", I coughed and flicked the reserved seats tickets, bullshit excuses!
My objection is about the race to the train at Euston in those circumstances, it favours fit adults. We had reserved the seats. I would not expect someone to give up their reserved seat for my children, but we paid for those seats. We don't deserve to lose them because a young child runs slowly in a crowd.
I conceded that all of the UK public does not have bad manners, and I apologise for that overgeneralisation. I was very cross when I wrote it and vented here. Thank you for listening. The young people on that train were selfish and poorly mannered.
FFS children over 5 pay for their seat on a train. Fair enough if no seat has been reserved put them on your knee, but if an able bodied adult is sitting in a childs seat that's ridiculous.
Hate all this talk of children being expected to stand up, they're not second class citizens! I would rather stand up myself if an elderly or disabled person needed a seat than make my DD stand up. Some children are also a bit big to be sitting on knees.
The OP reserved those seats. The only entitled ones are the adults who refused to move. A healthy able bodied adult is most likely more used to standing on a train than a child. It's horrible that a healthy adult would refuse to move out of someone else's reserved seat for a child who was swaying about the carriage.
I wonder if the children growing up with parents who feel the DCs have priority on seats will ever think of giving up their seats when they become adults
Fear not. I grew up with such parents and I leap out of my seat for weaklings of all ages. If standing I'm that woman who says in a loud voice: 'Would anyone be kind enough to give this person a seat?' Normally it's not necessary.
On the Tube the signs ask you to give up a seat for someone less able to stand. That's common sense because there isn't an age restriction on wobbliness.
Of course you get children to squash up or sit on your knee - but within reason. I wouldn't expect someone with a gammy leg to pile a heavy toddler and her luggage on her lap just for my convenience. She was there first.
As it happens I've never come across anyone who doesn't do that, but maybe I'm luckier than you.
My tube line is popular on school trips and there's always an excited child who wants to bag a seat and jump up and down. Teachers always say: 'Sit in it or stand. Make your mind up.'
I would never dream of taking his seat if he wanted to sit in it though and if a teacher made him stand for me I'd refuse because I wouldn't think it was fair. If she wanted to offer me her own seat, I'd take it though.
I would expect him to give it up for someone less able to stand but would expect the same of all passengers regardless of age.
BTW Only on Mumsnet have I ever read the dread word 'entitled' used to describe behaviour I'd describe as failing to apologise for your existence on the planet.
Only on mumsnet have I read/heard that adults should give up their seats for children. Ridiculous notion - great way to raise a generation of entitled youngsters.
"Need and common sense" says that adults get seats and parents put their children on their laps. Good manners means that children do not occupy seats when adults are standing. My 2 used to squash up into one seat so an adult could sit down. And as soon as they were old enough they would stand up for someone in need of a seat more than they were and they still do.
I wonder if the children growing up with parents who feel the DCs have priority on seats will ever think of giving up their seats when they become adults.
But only a total fucker would refuse to give up their seat for a child
Very recent attitude
If my 90-year-old mother was reading this, she'd disagree with you pumpkinpositive. And as for the comment about half-fares...
Age does not bestow special privileges. Neither should money. It should be about need and common sense.
I'm not offended by the OP's title either. She was upset and angry.
OP, my friend was caught up in the same incident going to Birmingham. She was lucky - a guard moved her and lots of other people to first class because it was getting dangerously overcrowded. Shame you didn't meet him.
K8, I don't think McDonald's dd was rude - there were other empty seats, & a different adult from the other group could've sat alone therefore allowing the toddler to remain with the group. If I was in a group of 3 at a table, I wouldn't expect anyone to need the fourth seat until the train was absolutely rammed.
I'm with Morgause on this.
I don't understand why you think your DCs have such priority.
The people sittting in your reserved seats were BU.
But would you really have let you DCs sit on seats when there were elderly people without a seat?
YABU making sweeping statements about the UK public.
There used to be signs on buses and trains saying that children travelled at a reduced rate providing they did not occupy a seat while adults were standing.
In this case I think the people should have given up the reserved seats - although they may have had reserved seats on the cancelled trains so felt they were entitled to sit down.
However, if people really think that children should get seats while adults stand then they should pay full fare for them. I wouldn't give up a (unreserved) seat so a child could sit. My DCs would be sat on our laps on trains if adults were standing, reserved seats or not.
I really can't get myself worked up about a couple of kids having to sit on the floor for the duration of a train journey.
Your dd and her friends were rude. They should have moved their stuff as soon as more people got on than seats mcdonalds.
Really, there's no excuse for that unless the bags had a ticket.
DD was on the train today with her friends and they were sitting in a group of 4 seats. As there was only 3 of them and the train wasn't crowded they all put their bags on the other seat. After 1 stop a load of French people got on the train and decided to sit across the aisle from DD and friends, about 5 mins in a French woman asked DD if she could move her bag so that her toddle could sit down on the seat. DD had no problem with this, until the lady asked if she could sit with her toddler on her lap. Again, this was not a problem. But them the woman told DD that her toddler didn't like sitting by herself (even though there was space for the mother to stand right next to the seat) and that DD would have to move so that she could sit down. Obviously DD moved but I don't see why she should have moved when this lady could've asked one of her friends to move or she could've moved into any one of the other can't seats in the carriage.
Some people are so rude on trains.
I'm in a really bad mood today and I'm furious for you OP. I can imagine the smug little arseholes faces as well, I've experienced it myself.
They were fucking rude. They should have moved if you reserved the seats.
However, you are fucking rude too with your sweeping thread title OP.
I don't think mine would either.
Helpfully my children need no encouragement Calamitously
You should have sat the children on the table and encouraged them to be utter pains in the arses.
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