To think that belief in Father Christmas is not comparable to religious belief.

(1000 Posts)
Throughthelongnight Fri 06-Dec-13 22:20:42

Just that really. I have noticed that the expectation is that we all go along with the pretence of FC for the sake of parent's children's sensibility, but the same is not afforded where religious belief is concerned.

Feelingfatty Fri 06-Dec-13 22:24:21

I think anything (within reason!!!) that someone believes should not be put down by anyone else. I wouldn't tell my cd anything isn't 'real' (bar scary things!!) because I have no idea and neither does anyone else! Let people be and enjoy their beliefs and lives smilesmilesmile

cheval1980 Fri 06-Dec-13 22:25:24

They are basically the same thing, "be good or else you won't get present s/eternity in heaven".

fifi669 Fri 06-Dec-13 22:25:49

I agree. People posting that they don't believe in fairies etc when talking about religion is just disrespectful.

BiscuitMillionaire Fri 06-Dec-13 22:27:17

YABU because your thread doesn't make sense. Yes it is NOT comparable, that's why we don't play along with religious beliefs until they turn 8 and realise it's really your mum.

okthen Fri 06-Dec-13 22:27:21

No it's not comparable to religious belief- it's a completely different thing. The reason we go along with the FC myth is to preserve the magic for little children. Religious belief meanwhile is a choice that adults make.

bumperella Fri 06-Dec-13 22:27:45

Parental choice, surely?

I personally see both as fictions. I would prefer non-denom settings (eg playgroup/etc) to leave both alone or make non-committal "mm, yes" noises to either/both as necessary/appropriate. I am a humanist, and would want DD to have humanist moral values, not to "be good to please God". But we live in the real world and there are lots of cultural assumptions that "Father Christmas brings gifts to good girls/boys" and "Good girls/boys go to Heaven".

Well yes, I suppose. But then no one has actually been killed in the name of Santa have they? Whilst millions have been killed in the name of "God".

specialsubject Fri 06-Dec-13 22:28:08

no it isn't. I have a perfect right to say that religion equates to fairies, beliefs do not deserve respect. If your belief is that easily offended, that's your problem.

PEOPLE get respect - worship god, santa or the flying spaghetti monster and good luck to you if that's how you wish to spend your time. I can say and think whatever I like, what I can't do is stop you or discriminate against you for it.

although plenty of places and people do.

whois Fri 06-Dec-13 22:28:24

I agree. People posting that they don't believe in fairies etc when talking about religion is just disrespectful

Because angels are so much more believable?

Ragwort Fri 06-Dec-13 22:28:33

I feel quite sad that some parents are up in arms if someone dares to suggest that FC isn't real but in the same breath seem to think it is 'outrageous' if someone offers their child a bible hmm or tries to celebrate the birth of Christ at Christmas.

Smoorikins Fri 06-Dec-13 22:28:49

So op, do you think people should defend to believe in god when they don't? That is what your post implies.

specialsubject Fri 06-Dec-13 22:28:54

'no it isn't disrespectful to compare religion to fairies' is what that should say.

Annunziata Fri 06-Dec-13 22:31:53

I really dislike the fairies comments. People are perfectly able to say there is no proof for God without having to be sarcastic and mocking and talking about flying spaghetti monsters. They seem deliberately out to hurt religious people.

Of course Santa and religion aren't the same.

cheval1980 Fri 06-Dec-13 22:32:43

Human civilisation has progressed by challenging assumptions made without sufficient evidence, so you can't really expect to have a belief that makes no sense and have people pussy foot around it and pretend its fantastic.

curlew Fri 06-Dec-13 22:35:17

"People posting that they don't believe in fairies etc when talking about religion is just disrespectful."

Why?

friday16 Fri 06-Dec-13 22:35:31

People are perfectly able to say there is no proof for God without having to be sarcastic and mocking and talking about flying spaghetti monsters.

Evidence for God: zero

Evidence for he of the noodly appendages: zero

cloggal Fri 06-Dec-13 22:38:15

YANBU, but I genuinely don't think many people would compare the two as like-for-like in a serious way. It gets conflated because it always pops up (funnily enough!) at Christmas! when some don't 'do' Jesus, and some don't 'do' Santa. Some Christians I know get upset about Santa as they feel (rightly) it detracts from a lot of the Christian message of Christmas.

I'm an atheist who genuinely loves all the Santa shite, it's how I celebrate Christmas. I would never trash the religious beliefs of anyone else, I expect though that people should not be disrespectful of my athiesm. I have attended masses for Christmas with family and friends and they've allowed me to buy Santa tat and do all that, even though for some of them it might feel like a conflict.

NicPen Fri 06-Dec-13 22:40:01

I think they are the same.

Also I know some people who do actually believe in fairies.

I don't think any belief should be mocked. Ignored perhaps but not mocked. Mocking is rude and disrespectful.

Live and let live.

SatinSandals Fri 06-Dec-13 22:41:35

They are completely different and as such I can't see why you can't have both.

fifi669 Fri 06-Dec-13 22:42:44

It's disrespectful because it's someone's faith. Faith means a lot to people, it can shape their whole life. You don't have to agree, you can debate the points of it, but to openly mock it is more an indication of your character than that of the person of faith.

bumperella Fri 06-Dec-13 22:43:11

Santa is a "suspension of disbelief" - kids WANT to believe in Santa and are very "immediate" in their outlook. If DD was being good in May because of Santa's presents in December then that would concern me.

I think that Christmas is a lovely, fantastic time and I want DD to enjoy it. I want her to celebrate having friends and family. I don't want her to celebrate the birth of Christ because I don't believe that it happened in the way the Bible suggests (as in, am sure there was some bloke who was politically significant but I don't believe he was the son of God).

curlew Fri 06-Dec-13 22:44:40

But some people believe in fairies.

SatinSandals Fri 06-Dec-13 22:47:03

Faith is different from magic. The 2 go together. If they go to church on Christmas Day it will be assumed that Father Christmas has visited. People with a faith want to make a lovely magical experience for their children, the same as those without a faith.

curlew Fri 06-Dec-13 22:48:06

I am very committed to rationalism and the scientific method and critical thinking, but I don't go round saying that people are being disrespectful to me when they insist on telling me that the ghost of great aunt Mabel lives in their teapot and if I wasn't so closed minded and spiritually bankrupt I could hear her singing "Nazareth"

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