ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
To be absolutely furious, stressed, angry and in state of panic about this?(86 Posts)
There has been restructuring in work, so we had to go for an interview for our jobs. There are enough vacancies for staff as some had left.
My interview went well, a person on the panel said "well done" as we were walking out.
I then get a phone call saying "interview was for another position also (not advertised) and when we spoke to a manager, he said no, he doesn't want you to have the job."
The next day I get a phone call, saying you have failed the interview, you are being made redundant.
I am furious, as I am a great employee. The chair of the interview panel has made sexist comments, and broken confidentiality when he spoke about another candidate. He has done other things too which raises serious questions about his professionalism and integrity.
Unfortunately, the other person on the panel is ambitious and will say anything to keep in favour with the managers.
As a widow, I am really stressed about being made redundant, especially when I have done nothing wrong. Obviously it isn't a nice job with these managers, but I would prefer to work here than be unemployed. I am scared of being unemployed as there is high unemployment in north of England.
I have asked for feedback, but the answers were vague and non committal, saying I didnt score enough points. He rushed through my interview as he had another meeting, and he even answered his mobile phone in somebody elses interview.
I have been treated appallingly by the whole process. Although, I face a risk of being bullied if I stay, I would prefer that to being on the dole.
I am waking up at night panicking and seeing these managers faces.
If there are still vacancies at or close to your grade there should be redeployment opportunities. Make an appointment with HR and ask them to take you through the procedure and how it has been applied to you.
And remember redundancy is a valid reason for dismissal providing a proper procedure has been followed. If it hasn't you may have a case for unfair dismissal.
Thanks everybody. ACAS have given me great advice and the law is on my side.
The problem is what gubbygubby and whitesugar have highlighted. They are hoping I go quietly, and are making things as difficult as possible for me.
I am terrified of being unemployed, so I will have to fight them. I would rather fight bullies and sexist people knowing the law is on my side, knowing they are in the wrong than to face the stress and uncertainty of being unemployed.
It does consume my thoughts all the time, and it is making me anxious. I am just hanging on until Christmas, then I can rest and I will feel much better.
I feel so angry though, I dont deserve this. I am a great employee, and am good at my job. It is a large place, and staff are considering striking for me.
I really commend you for being so brave. These situations cause massive anxiety. I have to find a way to ease the anxiety and agnst otherwise I will go off my rocker. I have researched ideas online and think practising mindfullness seems a good approach. It has helped me realise I can't change the situation at work but I can try to change my reaction to it. Its very early days and I am hardly an expert but even if I get ten minutes peace a day its worth it. I go onto a website which has a few exercises which do help. Just keep breathing. Look after yourself through this stressful time.
When you have won this fight (and I'm sure you will ) look for another job anyway. This is a shitty way to treat an employee and if there are unfilled posts then redeployment would been appropriate. I'm not sure I would want to work somewhere long term where this was the attitude, and it would be less stressful looking for another job whilst you already have one and can continue to pay the bills.
Have you posted on the Employment issues forum? The poster flowery in particular is very knowledgeable and helpful about all sorts of work-related problems.
Work have now advertised my job externally!
They also haven't paid me any money for December, saying my basic pay was £0 even though I turned up every day.
Fortunately, the union rep has returned from illness, but we are closed until 6th Jan so nothing can happen until next year.
Bloody Nora - how do they think they'll get away with that? Do you have a signing in/out procedure at work to prove you were there? Even if they haven't paid your wages they should have paid your redundancy money as apparently you've been made redundant.
Check the advert. The companies sometimes get away with re advertising a post by adding in a requirement for the job role that they feel they can prove you don't process from the job re interviews.
Stay strong op, they haven't followed the proper process, gubby & sugar are bang on there. Also, letters about the process, interviews & decisions have to be done to a timescale & are set down in law, they can't just say,"don't come in tomorrow."
When the redundancy process has been followed & the staff for redundancy have been selected, there is a proper process of appeal, but it has to be done to a strict timescale. You need to let them know, in writing, that you intend to appeal; don't give them your ammo that a fair & proper process has not been followed at the moment, just that you intend to appeal. Please make sure that you are in a union.
You mention that in your interview they kept a score sheet. You have the right to see that and any references that were written, (even if a phone reference was given, it has to be written by the person taking it & placed with the paperwork).
As a widow & Mum you have massive discrimination legislation on your side too. Did your company make reasonable adjustments to your work & support you properly when your partner died?
From what you've said, it looks like you have quite a case. Make sure you're with a good union, put your head down & plough on.
Sending best wishes
What a hellish position to be in you poor thing.
Can I suggest you check your house insurance for legal cover? Most policies cover employment disputes. We had to use ours a couple of years back for something with dh's job, and the advice they gave us was invaluable
Keep strong for your fight ahead.
Standing shoulder to shoulder with you.
Given you don't want to be there long term, and given they appear to have got stuff wrong, there is a negotiation here.
The easiest way to get a new job is to apply while you still have the old one.
So if your ACAS lawyer confirms the advice others have given you here (in the nicest way, do check it- there will be facts that you haven't shared that a lawyer would need to hear before deciding) then you may be able to get them to leave you alone for six months while you find something, and then you leave under a compromise agreement, with a tax free sum in settlement and a reference that they have to agree with you and your lawyer and they can't then ever deviate from.
Tis could be made to work for you. Take good legal advice, be calm and assertive, focus on getting out with a good reference and settlement and enough time to find something.
Every time they do something wrong/outside of procedure, smile to yourself, because their fuck up is your gain.
Fight fight fight. This will be hard but you will absolutely come out of this stronger. And in all likelihood will benefit from it too even if you don't keep your job. You're right, they're hoping you go quietly, but from what you've posted, that's enough to make even a hardened HR manager go grey and keel over.
Deep breath, you WILL be ok. X x x
And yes check your home insurance policy.
I wanted to come on and wish you well OP. I admire your work ethic and I am sure your attitude and persistence will help you in the future.
If you would like any help with updating your CV or interview technique please message me. Kind thoughts heading your way.
I would also recommend "What Colour is Your Parachute"by Richard Nelson Bolles. I am sure your library could order it for you. It really helped me when I was made redundant/unfairly dismissed and I have recommended it to several friends.
Nice how awful! I am sorry to hear it has come to this. I work in a public authority where this is becoming the norm. Colleagues and friends of mine are losing their jobs and their jobs are being advertised externally at lower grades. If anyone complains HR just say that different rules apply when a restructuring is taking place. It is bullshit, they are getting rid of experienced staff and replacing them with young cheaper recruits who are on lower grades with crap pensions. Funnily enough senior management are not affected, their posts seem to be secure.
I am mid 40's and sole provider for two teenagers, a mortgage and all the bills and I really am scared. I wish I could complain but my best attempt at self survival is to keep my head down which really f***ing pisses me off. You are not alone and I am thinking about you.
Thinking of you,my sister is being treated like shite by her company too so I know how stressful it is.
Sounds like tribunal material to me.
Did they give you a proper consultation period?
I'd visit an employment solicitor.
Thanks everybody for posting, I go from moments of being strong to then being in panic.
I still don't want to be made redundant or go to a tribunal, any money I get will be taken off me as I will have to claim benefits. The thought of being unemployed and being at home all day terrifies me, I am too isolated so will struggle.
As I rent privately and I know from experience that the Benefits people mess up, I am terrified of being in a vulnerable position.
So I will fight, out of fear, but I will also feel proud of myself when it is all over.
I have requested an appeal on 10th of December, one was arranged, then they realised it was with the wrong person, (HR mistake) so I am waiting for another date.
In the meantime the closing date for my job is 6th of Jan when we return to work.
I also have proof that my interview was good!
I am confident I will win the tribunal, but I don't want it. I just want to work, possibly be bullied now, while I desperately look for new work.
I don't trust them now after they haven't paid me. I am wondering whether it was deliberate, surely somebody who has input my wages in for 12 years see pay as £0 would realise it is a mistake?
I hate the managers now (there is more stuff) how do I be professional when I see them?
I will try and answer again, but I can only cope in small bits x
You might not have to go to tribunal - most issues like this are sorted out well before the tribunal stage and the company would have to be absolutely certain of its position before they'd put themselves in such a public arena and open themselves up for criticism.
My prediction is that you'll end up with a Compromise Agreement, essentially meaning they pay you off. Given that you should never have lost your job and they've cocked up their own procedures they'd have to take your loss of earnings into account, so it's not an insubstantial sum. But half an hour on the phone to a decent employment lawyer will tell you more.
There's nothing to stop you raising a grievance if you feel you are bullied. Personally I'd raise a grievance at every opportunity to ensure that if you do keep your job, the very last thing you'll be us bullied as they'll know to leave you well alone.
Fuck 'em. Beat them with their own sticks!
As for not being paid I'd contact the most senior person you can get hold of, and complain bitterly. And outline the impact this has had on your health, stress, bank charges, a miserable Christmas etc etc etc. then follow up in writing and copy in HR, your line, payroll etc. As I've said, every mistake they make is power to you.
My ex H was in this position a few years ago. His job was given to a 'mate' of the new Manager.
Our house insurance included legal cover, so we contacted them. It only took one letter, and he was offered a 25K payout, which he accepted, given that it would have been impossible to go back.
I think they expected him to just disappear too.
So sorry you're going through this. I have been through many rounds of redundancy and have been made redundant (fairly and legally) twice so I can fully sympathise with that horrible sickening feeling.
I'm no legal expert and have never been through restructuring, which may be different. However, in all the situations I have been in it is very clearly the position that is made redundant, not that person, so it sounds very dodgy they are advertising it externally. I also know that you still get your notice period when made redundant (assuming you had one, don't know what the statutory notice period is, mine has always been one month once out of probationary period). So you get official notification at the end of the consultation period that you are being made redundant, and from that date you either work your notice period or you are asked to leave and paid in lieu. Can't believe they haven't paid you anything.
Good luck! Think you are very brave fighting them, hope it turns out well.
Oh, and on the paying front - surely they either believe they have made you redundant, in which case they pay your notice and redundancy pay (statutory minimum should be 12 weeks' pay as you've worked there 12 years) or they believe you are still working there and they pay your salary!not paying you anything shouldn't be an option!
How terrible that you can be treated in this way, I hope you can stay strong and make them pay
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.