To think there must be laws to stop bosses refusing holiday with no reason

(14 Posts)
PrincessScrumpy Fri 22-Nov-13 12:57:14

DH started a new job in September - same overall company he has worked for for 9 years but new office/location. His boss has been pretty horrendous re shifts/holiday etc so far changing them at last minute and telling dh he cannot attend a funeral that had been agreed 2 weeks before (dh was told 4 hours before the funeral he couldn't go which meant we couldn't even arrange to send flowers in his absence)

Again, today dh's shift has been changed to a late with only 2 days notice. We are potty training twins and are on week one so had planned the timing so dh would be home tonight so I could take dd1 to an after school activity without having to rush dtds to the loo lots etc. Now he is working late.

With that going on dh also put in a request for 4 days holiday - 2 as individual days here and there and 2 running one after the other (Tuesday Wednesday) all late November and early December (He cannot take any time over Christmas other than Christmas day as his boss is taking the whole 2 weeks). Dh put this request in 3 weeks ago for these days and his boss is still umming over whether he can authorise them as they are very busy this time of year. No one else is off on these days and dh picked them so they have minimal affect. He even said to his boss "okay, tell me which 4 days I can take" and his boss said hmmm I think you might have to lose them this year.

Can he do this? AIBU thinking this shouldn't be allowed. In September dh had 10 days to take but couldn't take any in September as it was his first month so he's only has 2.5months in which he can take them and he's taken 6 of them so he hasn't been saving them all up and demanding 3 weeks off or anything that could be seen as bu.

5Foot5 Fri 22-Nov-13 13:07:34

Hopefully someone in a HR capacity can answer this definitively but I would have said not. I looked this sort of thing up once when a previous employer was taking ages to decide over leave requests for the Christmas period and I found this https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/booking-timeoff

"The general notice period for taking leave is at least twice as long as the amount of leave a worker wants to take (eg 2 days’ notice for 1 day’s leave) unless the contract says something different.

An employer can refuse a leave request but they must give as much notice as the amount of leave requested, eg 2 weeks notice if the leave requested was 2 weeks. "

Which sounds like your DHs boss was in the wrong to rescind the request for the funeral

5Foot5 Fri 22-Nov-13 13:09:00

Oh and this

"Although employers can refuse to give leave at a certain time, they can’t refuse to let workers take the leave at all."

So again it sounds like they might be wrong telling him he might have to lose his leave. If he did would the company buy it back from him?

PrincessScrumpy Fri 22-Nov-13 13:13:52

Thank you 5foot5.

Funeral thing was terrible but dh was supposed to travel with a senior manager so the senior manager had to be made aware and was furious with dh's boss. Dh doesn't want to have to go over his boss' head but he's making it hard not to. He's not been in management before and it really shows.

PeppiNephrine Fri 22-Nov-13 13:15:37

He can't prevent him taking legal minimum holiday, thats a fact.

PrincessScrumpy Fri 22-Nov-13 13:17:05

I think dh gets a bit over the legal minimum but it's in his contract so should count... I hope

eatriskier Fri 22-Nov-13 13:17:05

As the legality of things stand the boss can refuse leave at certain points - I believe they can also tell you when to take leave. However they have to allow you to use your leave. So your DH was right to ask when he could have them but his boss is wrong to say he has to lose them. I suggest you get DH to ask boss in writing when he can take his leave and if the boss refuses to respond or again says about losing them your DH is going to have to go to hr about it.

Hissy Fri 22-Nov-13 13:17:28

I think it looks like he'd be best off looking for a new job. working for twats like that is never a good thing.

Tell him to get advice from HR or from a legal eagle.

PrincessScrumpy Fri 22-Nov-13 13:19:00

Dh emailed on Tuesday to ask if he had given his request more thought. One day is next week so would be good to know if dh will be home and we can plan things.

RafflesWay Fri 22-Nov-13 13:26:35

princess this smacks of "office politics" to me. I suffered dreadfully like this once and finally left to set up my own business. It sounds to me as if your dh is very good at his job and is very well thought of by senior management. If your dh's boss is new to the role then he could be very worried your dh could be after his job even if he isn't. Just the fact that your dh is very capable could be causing the boss sleepless nights. Subsequently he could be trying to make life as difficult as possible for your dh in the hope that he will leave. You both have my deepest sympathy if this is what is happening as I know only too well how hard it is to handle. Sorry wish I had a solution but just wanted to say IMHO you are most DNBU.

TheWitTank Fri 22-Nov-13 13:27:05

I think firstly you need to have a look at his contract. Is it stipulated that he must be fully flexible with shifts at short notice? Does it mention holidays and the process surrounding booking and taking them? I work in HR and at the company I work at, we require 4 weeks notice of holiday unless it is an emergency where it can be booked at the managers discretion. If he has not taken his full holiday, he should be entitled to either take this, carry it over or be paid for it. It fully depends on his contract and the company rules though, you need to look at these.

PrincessScrumpy Fri 22-Nov-13 13:34:05

He is supposed to give at least 2 weeks notice (which he has done)

RafflesWay - this is kind of dh's fears but he took the job and pay cut to be closer to us (his family and young children). Eventually he would like his boss' job but only when the time is right and would never do anything to force his way through iyswim. So yes if his boss left he would go for the role but he actually loves his job and with a good boss would be very happy. Hi boss' mistakes are known about by those higher because his boss seems to have a need to tell them and include them rather than make decision himself - dh is not dobbing him in as he's had a similar situation in the past and really doesn't want it again. This is why he is trying not to go over his boss' head. He wants a good relationship and doesn't want his boss to feel vulnerable but he is more experienced and has proved himself at a higher level.

bumbumsmummy Fri 22-Nov-13 13:45:18

That's alright then if his boss is ok seriously that's awful and this is how workplace bullying escalates to more sinister practices

He should have gone to the funeral with the other senior manager it would have given the clear message that this wont be tolerated

My DH was prevented from taking his leave for two years and days in lieu until he had managed to accumulate 10 weeks leave he wrote to HR and his manager with the option of buying the leave off him or let him take his holidays and he wrote down the dates he wanted

It worked he got paid for the weeks and was able to take his lieu days as it is a legal requirement that you take your holiday and he could prove they were reasonable requests

WallyBantersJunkBox Fri 22-Nov-13 13:49:09

I had similar issues a few years ago. I sympathise op. Once I had put in 6 months notice of a 4 day trip to Vegas and heard nothing back. A month before my holiday I said I needed the form signed or I would have to resign to go on holiday. I'd worked 10 months of 60 hour weeks without a break! When I got back she'd arranged a 6 hour meeting at short notice. I was landing at 7am and going straight into work - she'd done it on purpose. Turns out she was extremely insecure about her postion in the company as others have mentioned on the thread. I ended up leaving over another very unprofessional matter.

I'd also question him taking two weeks holiday for himself at Christmas. Unless he's sacrificed Christmas for the last few years to team members, why is it all about him if there has to be cover?

I negotiate leave over Christmas with my next in command. We take a week each - he prefers NYE normally, so I do the first week. He wants to go home for Christmas so I have swapped this year.

With the rest of the team we try and get everyone to do the minimum possible so everyone gets a break. One section take it in turns each year with each other.

He sounds disorganised, insecure, selfish and incompetent. And unfortunately he is taking it out on your DP.

If his boss is already aware that he is an incompetent fuck up then DP should go over his head on these occasions to HR.

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