To think that Amazon should not be selling this book!!! <warning - upsetting content>

(203 Posts)
LEMisafucker Tue 19-Nov-13 12:23:34

http://www.amazon.co.uk/To-Train-Up-Child-children/dp/1892112000

I don't have the words - this is actually a thread about a thread, but i thnk this needs more attention so posting here. There have been convictions for murder in the states by folk following this book. Yet it is still published angry

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/1915841-Has-the-world-gone-completely-mad

Link to original thread

LEMisafucker Tue 19-Nov-13 12:24:13

link fails www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/1915841-Has-the-world-gone-completely-mad

[[http://www.amazon.co.uk/To-Train-Up-Child-children/dp/1892112000 ]]

TEEurkeyDay Tue 19-Nov-13 12:24:27

Freedom of Speech is precisely for covering shit like that.

Sad but true.

LEMisafucker Tue 19-Nov-13 12:24:28

Fucking Hell shock

I'm genuinely floored that this exists and that people buy it and follow it.

Lost for words...

Sammie101 Tue 19-Nov-13 12:32:13

I read about this in the other thread about that poor, little girl hmm

What I want to know is who actually publishes such cruel, disgusting things? And it's been given to and written by a Christian (?) couple? The whole book seems very unchristian to me!

There's another thread about it in Chat - (http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/1915759-Evil-book-To-Train-Up-a-Child) with details of a campaign to stop UK retailers selling it. Several have removed it from their stock but Amazon, Apple, The Book Depository and no doubt others are still profiting from it.

happydaze77 Tue 19-Nov-13 13:15:10

Is this for real?! Horrific. sad

HettiePetal Tue 19-Nov-13 13:26:03

Yes, it's disgusting - might as well call it "How To Abuse Your Child".

But this:

Freedom of Speech is precisely for covering shit like that is a ridiculous thing to say, and not remotely true hmm

KissesBreakingWave Tue 19-Nov-13 13:36:12

TEEurkeyDay, it's not a freedom of speech issue: this book contains, and largely consists of, incitements to commit serious criminal offences.

flatpackhamster Tue 19-Nov-13 14:13:39

KissesBreakingWave

TEEurkeyDay, it's not a freedom of speech issue: this book contains, and largely consists of, incitements to commit serious criminal offences.

In that case it is precisely a freedom of speech issue. You may not like what it has to say. The authorities may deem some of the actions in the book as criminal. But that shouldn't make it illegal to buy or read it.

How is a campaign to ban a book any better than book burning?

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed Tue 19-Nov-13 14:17:19

I'm not sure about legalities of selling it, but surely it should come with some kind of disclaimer stating that anyone following the advice in the book is likely to be prosecuted for child abuse and have their children taken into care.

PresidentServalan Tue 19-Nov-13 14:23:27

The problem with there being several threads about this is that it is more publicity for the author. Unfortunately freedom of speech also extends to things you don't agree with. I don't believe that perfectly rational people are going to pick this book up and start abusing kids.

missfliss Tue 19-Nov-13 14:25:38

its not supressing freedom of speech - its about asking retailers to make a commercial decision

LEMisafucker Tue 19-Nov-13 14:26:03

Perfectly rational people wont - but not everyone is perfectly rational, sadly. Also, it is offensive. Thankfully this isn't a case of all publicity is good publicity.

PresidentServalan Tue 19-Nov-13 14:26:54

Sorry, pressed send too soon! People have been doing this kind of thing for years sad and the existence of a book like this is just an example of this. Banning books is a dangerous road to go down though - who gets to say what is acceptable?

flatpackhamster Tue 19-Nov-13 14:34:51

LEMisafucker

Perfectly rational people wont - but not everyone is perfectly rational, sadly. Also, it is offensive. Thankfully this isn't a case of all publicity is good publicity.

So we should ban a book just in case the wrong people read it, or because it offends some people?

flatpackhamster Tue 19-Nov-13 14:36:36

PresidentServalan

Sorry, pressed send too soon! People have been doing this kind of thing for years sad and the existence of a book like this is just an example of this. Banning books is a dangerous road to go down though - who gets to say what is acceptable?

Apparently both Mumsnet and the Daily Mail consider themselves the Fountains of Moral Probity. In future all decisions on suitable literature, websites and television programmes will be run past a People's Committee consisting of a combination of Daily Fail Commentards and Mumsnet Busybodies.

TEEARDIS Tue 19-Nov-13 14:44:41

Flatpack got back to this first. But, yes. That's exactly what Freedom of Speech is about.

Talking about such things is not illegal. It's doing them that's illegal. A fine line, but a line nonetheless.

It's censorship to ask them to stop selling this. It just is.

Where do you draw the line? Who decides?

cestlavielife Tue 19-Nov-13 14:47:33

banning the book achieves nothing.

corporal punishment is lawful in US acc to wiki
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment_in_the_home
so the author can subtly argue that they not advocating any law breaking - that is in the hands of those who take it too far/misnterpret .

"United States
Despite some opposition to corporal punishment in the United States, the spanking of children is legal in all states. Bans on the corporal punishment of children have been proposed in Massachusetts[31] and California[32][33] but have failed to secure passage.[34][35]
"

In the UK, corporal punishment is legal, but it must not leave a mark on the body and in Scotland it has been illegal to use any implements other than an open hand when disciplining a child since October 2003

yes there are laws against child abuse. but if you dont leave a mark in england and Wales you can "switch" your kids a la this book.

the danger is the fundamentalist biblical religion behind the whole thing. but that is not illegal either.

how many people actually buy and follow these teachings?
that's what you need to know...and how many abuse their children even without reading such books? even without the book/input from the ministry concerned, how can we know for sure these deaths would not have happened? the parents were clearly v midguided...vulnerable to suggestion...or jsut needed an excuse who knows why? where were social services etcetc ?

LEMisafucker Tue 19-Nov-13 14:50:46

We should ban the book because the people are profiting from child abuse - hth

Jojay Tue 19-Nov-13 14:57:32

How many people there have read the book?

I'm not supporting this book for one minute, but having never so much as flicked through it, I'm withholding judgement for now.

Just a thought, that's all smile

flatpackhamster Tue 19-Nov-13 15:09:22

LEMisafucker

We should ban the book because the people are profiting from child abuse - hth

It isn't illegal to write what they're writing. It shouldn't be illegal to write anything.

There are no grounds to ban the book, which is no doubt why the meddling mumsnetters are trying to get Amazon to refuse to sell it.

flatpackhamster Tue 19-Nov-13 15:09:46

Jojay

How many people there have read the book?

I haven't, and I don't care what's in it, I'm just taking a stance against bansturbators.

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