To have said this to DS' Yr R teacher in GP surgery today?

(208 Posts)
youarewinning Fri 08-Nov-13 22:19:05

I must point out DS is now 9yo and in year 5. He's been extremely ill and diagnosed with tonsillitis at surgery. He was lying down on me but constantly twitching his legs and twiddling his fingers and occasionally instead of frequently! making noises.

Saw his old year R teacher - she was a complete cow to him and memorably punished him for pretend stinging a girl with a 'bee puppet' they had made - the girl cried. He was 4.1yo at the time.

School did point out he had poor social communication but despite my insistence thought it was 'something he'd learn as he matured' and she seemed to preferred the 'punish it out of him' approach. sad as opposed to something that he needed an IEP/support for.

Anyway she retired as he left year R and he left the infants just over 2 years ago. <happiest day of my life!>

She said Hi to DS who didn't recognise her. I reminded him she was his teacher in year R. DS just said 'oh' and laid back down. She asked him how juniors was and he said "fine".

She then said "your much quieter than you use to be but I see you still don't sit still" shock

My simple reply was "I see you're still as judgemental as you use to be and continue to misunderstand children"

Ironically my DS is not quiet - he's quiet socially but is always talking to himself, his Ipad grin or generally making low level noises. He does sit very well now.
Most importantly thanks to the correct support he's getting is doing extremely well in school and is part way towards a diagnosis of ASD.

diagnosticnomansland Tue 12-Nov-13 14:34:52

I gathered that, about living with an Autistic loved one...coupled with you being a teacher I am, truly shocked, that you would do exactly as the teacher in question did to a four year old. I have to say if you were my child's teacher, we would most certainly lock antlers.

MrsLouisTheroux Mon 11-Nov-13 18:31:35

Diagnostic Yes and live with Autistic 20 year old.
Double shock!

diagnosticnomansland Mon 11-Nov-13 14:00:12

Mrs L...you're a teacher? confused shock hmm

youarewinning Mon 11-Nov-13 13:48:05

Thanks MrsL I'm fully aware my reaction was rude, probably called for - but very mistimed! I honestly have no problem with accepting some posters think IWBU as I did ask! I just had a problem with people accusing me of lying/ exaggerating (or whatever) my reasons behind the remark. I don't think the reasons justify my response; they were just the facts about why I responded as I did.

Turns out many people think I was right, I however still feel it was said at wrong place and wrong time like 5 years too late and as you said - outloud grin. But I've said it now and this thread has been therapeutic if nothing else in sorting out feelings I didn't realise I'd not worked through.

MrsLouisTheroux Mon 11-Nov-13 13:31:49

youarewinning I understand the frustration, I feel it every day and I totally empathise with you. What I think and what I say out loud to people are two different things though.
In many ways people are just ignorant and would be horrified if they knew the hurt they cause. If you had said AIBU to hold a grudge because of... and AIBU to have wanted to tell this woman how insensitive her remarks come across, I would have said YANBU.

MrsLouisTheroux Mon 11-Nov-13 13:23:43

Gold I answered the OP's original AIBU way up thread. The thread seems to have moved on.

youarewinning Mon 11-Nov-13 12:27:45

Boffin You've just made my day and I really must stop drinking coffee whilst MNing! grin

I understand what your saying MrsL You do only have my word. And I'm not saying the school didn't recognise DS had needs - they did, both announcing he had poor social communication (which I had suspected) and at risk of dyslexia after DEST. (now not at risk smile) Just that their methods of 'teaching' him these skills won't work for a child with ASD - which obviously at the time we weren't aware of - although we knew there was something iyswim? I felt their tactics were harsh and led to a 4yo having school refusal as he simply couldn't understand "why the teacher hates me". Not every teacher since then has been able to understand or help my DS - but at least they have tried.
His teacher last year, a fairly new teacher didn't really understand my DS' needs or ASD (and she got the hard job of being his teacher as it went from SN to probable DX of what SN). She did give him sanctions for things he did related to his ASD and his anxiousness levels were high during the school year - however she also spent time after school with him helping him settle into school clubs.
For me it's not about getting it right - its about the willingness to at least try and help him.

Goldmandra Mon 11-Nov-13 12:05:38

To be fair, the OP didn't ask whether she was being unreasonable in her view that the teacher had failed her child dismally and cause him significant unnecessary distress. The fact that subsequent teachers have met his needs appropriately seems to be good evidence that it was the teacher who was at fault.

Her questions was that, given that this had happened, was her response to her perception that this woman was starting on him again within seconds of an unexpected encounter unreasonable.

You chose to answer a question that wasn't even asked.

MrsLouisTheroux Mon 11-Nov-13 08:54:39

sided

MrsLouisTheroux Mon 11-Nov-13 08:53:38

boffin grin grin grin
Go on, you've persuaded me! Burn the witch!

gold: You are choosing to assume that she has made dozens of incorrect assumptions and blown everything way out of proportion every step of the way.
Yes I am I suppose because I know how one sides these threads are. There is nothing worse than feeling your child is being treated unfairly but this OP has posted AIBU and I am saying there is a possibility that she is.

Goldmandra Mon 11-Nov-13 08:19:02

I think Monday morning might be getting to BoffinMum grin

BoffinMum Mon 11-Nov-13 08:05:56

I may have watched too much Orphan Black, btw.grin

BoffinMum Mon 11-Nov-13 08:04:35

Old bag, definitely.

Descend to her level. Make a big papier mâché bee with a hot glue gun secretly embedded within it like a crafter's Trojan horse, and 'pretend' to sting her next time. Whilst laughing maniacally and yelling 'Where do you think he gets it from, old woman? Mwah hah hah!'

Some people just need telling.wink

Goldmandra Mon 11-Nov-13 08:00:21

*You have no way of knowing how much or how little this teacher tried to understand and neither do I.
We have a handful of incidents ( if that) to go on and a one sided story.*

I have the OP's description of how much the teacher didn't try to understand. I'm choosing to respond to the information presented as is the norm on MN. You are choosing to assume that she has made dozens of incorrect assumptions and blown everything way out of proportion every step of the way.

We have the OP's assertion that the neglect of her child's needs was a whole catalogue of incidents which lasted a whole year.

I do admit that this wouldn't be sufficient evidence to sack the woman but this is a discussion on an internet forum, not a tribunal. We don't often have two sides of the story do we?

It is unreasonable to expect teachers to know what works/ doesn't work all the time.

Of course it is but it's not unreasonable to expect them to recognise the parent as the expert in their own child and make at least some effort to meet the child's needs rather than trying to bully them out of 'naughty' behaviour.

MrsLouisTheroux Mon 11-Nov-13 06:36:32

However every teacher can make an enormous difference by making small adjustments and being willing to look for the reasons behind the behaviour before deciding to punish it
Or great bloody whopping adjustments and hours of trying to figure out reasons for things as is the case in my house. It is unreasonable to expect teachers to know what works/ doesn't work all the time. They have up to 30 children to deal with.
So, lets say this teacher got it badly wrong, was an old bag and made this child's life an utter misery. What did OP do about it?

MrsLouisTheroux Mon 11-Nov-13 06:28:49

gold You have no way of knowing how much or how little this teacher tried to understand and neither do I.
We have a handful of incidents ( if that) to go on and a one sided story.

Goldmandra Sun 10-Nov-13 23:06:01

I think that we sometimes overestimate a teacher's ability to have a perfect strategy for every single act/ behaviour

I think just being willing to try a few might have been a step forward in this case.

I don't expect any teacher to be perfect or even really good with my DCs for 100% of the time. Most of us understand that our own child will almost always have to fit in with the needs of other individuals and the group. However every teacher can make an enormous difference by making small adjustments and being willing to look for the reasons behind the behaviour before deciding to punish it. That isn't overestimating the teacher's ability to do anything. It's expecting them to make an effort to teach the children without harming them.

youarewinning Sun 10-Nov-13 21:28:22

Sometimes I find it easier not to 'have a go at someone' as its usually me that ends up feeling bad about it. NOW you tell me Donkey grin

That's pretty much what happened here. I snapped. Justifiably or not (as you can see that's very much open to debate!) - but it's made me come to terms with it and work through some feelings.

I don't predict every ASD related incident here either my life would be far more peaceful if I could! MrsL Hence why we're all saying a 4yo can't predict that playing with a puppet (bee + sting) will cause another child to cry. Other peoples reactions to seemingly logical things just cannot be predicted.

My DS lack of reaction to her crying obviously was not great. However....... after many years of him staring at people who are upset/ hurt etc I have managed to teach him to ask "are you OK". Sadly that's as far we've got! It is one of the social stories we are working on though so hopefully we'll have a breakthrough soon!

MrsLouisTheroux Sun 10-Nov-13 20:47:41

Just labelling someone as naughty is lazy though I agree Donkey

MrsLouisTheroux Sun 10-Nov-13 20:46:00

I have lived with someone with ASD for 20 years.
I think that we sometimes overestimate a teacher's ability to have a perfect strategy for every single act/ behaviour each individual child presents in a classroom of 30 children.
I don't predict, cope with, understand, empathise with, relate to or deal with every single incident related to ASD perfectly and it's been 20 years here.

Donkeyok Sun 10-Nov-13 20:44:04

I am also a teacher and have a ds 8 with similar SEN. Its great that you have toys/ twiddle box as my ds has eaten 2 blazers and 3 ties in 2 terms.
I find it quite depressing that despite talking to educated teachers re my sons SEN, suspected ADHD his report from 8 different teachers (grammar system) complained of his inability to focus. I am looking forward to parents evening next week when I will let rip (politely).

I understand you must feel great to have got your opportunity to speak up for him although a little late. If she has just retired she may have been old school where this 'naughty' child image comes from.

Just be glad you're in a good place now.

Sometimes I find it easier not to 'have a go at someone' as its usually me that ends up feeling bad about it. I had to remove my ds after 2 years of bullying that wasn't helped by the teachers. In the end I knew another meeting was fruitless and quietly changed schools.

pacificjade Sun 10-Nov-13 20:27:05

And maybe the OP shouldn't get in a tizz about negative comments from one person, but as I know, years of having your child misunderstood and treated as being 'naughty' is very wearing. It is especially wearing coming from a trained professional who is supposed to do their best by your child.

I completely understand why the OP snapped and was, IMO justifiably, little rude in her response to a very rude comment about her DS.

MrsLouisTheroux Sun 10-Nov-13 20:25:09

I know an awful lot through personal experience pacific. What is true for one child isn't true for all. But if OP has already said her DS doesn't remember people, again, apologies.

pacificjade Sun 10-Nov-13 20:18:44

MrsLouisTheroux if you knew anything about kids with ADS (or alternatively read the whole thread, as it's already been mentioned) you would know that they often don't recognise people, sometimes months, never mind years later.

MrsLouisTheroux Sun 10-Nov-13 20:03:00

Your DS didn't remember her/ recognise her. She can't have left much of an impression positive or negative so the only person getting in a tizz is you. It's not worth it.

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