to think that if you can't spare the staff to clean up a soiled child you can't spare them to supervise one who is sent out of class?

(123 Posts)
Kyrptonite Tue 05-Nov-13 23:17:43

DS is 4, fairly bright, can be a handful (was referred to CAMHS for suspected ADHD, they wouldn't follow it up) and has toileting issues. He will soil his pants pretty much every day (doctor thinks he has encopresis, finally have a hospital appointment tomorrow).

Before he started school I went in and had a chat with his teacher and the head about the behavioural issues and the soiling. They assured me that there would only be a problem if he was having multiple accidents a day which is perfectly reasonable.

The first 4 weeks he came out of school 3 times absolutely caked in poo. He stunk. The next time it happened the TA came out with him at home time waving his bag of soiled clothing in front of her and said in front of DS that they could smell him this time so changed him. I emailed the school and asked if they could perhaps put his clothes in his PE bag so it was slightly less obvious and embarrassing. Cue meeting with arsey head who said they didn't have to change him and it was only because the TA was available that they could. I explained his medical condition, asked me to bring in some info on it (couldn't she have googled?!) and she said she hadn't heard of it and could I put DS in pull ups.

I refused the pull up idea as his accidents at school are very infrequent (he seems to save that for when he is at home) and I was worried that the other children might see him in pull ups when getting changed for PE and tease him. The head teacher said that they didn't have the staff available to change him and that 4/5 year old children wouldn't notice a child in a nappy!

DS's teacher took DP aside before half term and basically said that DS's behaviour stood out a mile from the rest of the class. DP explained again that the Dr had also had concerns and could the school involve the SENCO. We went to an open afternoon at the school and it seemed as though the headteacher kept looking at DS, waiting for him to do something and tell him off. I thought I was imagining this but DP saw it too and he isn't the most observant!

DS keeps saying he's been sent out of his classroom or excluded from activities. I ask him why and he can't tell me. He genuinely can't seem to understand what he has done wrong or he just can't remember. I'm slightly confused as to who is supervising him when he's been sent out. surely the school don't just leave a 4 year old outside a room on their own? Especially one who has been a PITA and could do anything left to their own devices.

I'm also baffled as to how, if DS isn't being left alone, they have the staff to supervise him but not change him when he's had an accident that is not through any fault of his own.

Also, surely sending a child out doesn't actually help unless they understand what they have done. Should they not be trying to support him to behave how they want him to?

I am well aware that he is no angel. I'm just confused as to whether this is normal for reception or if I need to speak to the teacher.

Kyrptonite Sat 16-Nov-13 11:56:43

I know. Schools accept these children at such a young age and can't get their heads around the fact that accidents sometimes happen more so if there is a medical issue.

Oh well. Onwards and upwards to the new school. Just a week of hardcore amounts of laxatives to get throughhmm

Spiritedwolf Sat 16-Nov-13 10:38:59

Delurking to wish you and DS luck with the medication and the new school.

I find it appalling that there isn't more understanding of the needs of small children and particuarly ones with health issues. Not to mention this school dragging their feet over providing any support.

The silver lining is that this issue been so badly dealt with that it has highlighted how inadequate that school is at caring for its pupils very quickly so that you and your son can move on. If DS hadn't had these health problems then you might have had a low level dissatisfaction caused by their lack of care with the school for years but with no issue seeming bad enough to move schools.

Makes a nonsense of trying to make children start school at 2 years, doesn't it? when they can't even look after the personal care needs of 4 and 5 year olds.

Kyrptonite Fri 15-Nov-13 20:53:43

And if you work in an early years setting which reception is then its a given that at some point you might have to clean up an accident.

Kyrptonite Fri 15-Nov-13 20:52:40

If it's solid poo he can be capable of not having accidents. If it's loose droppings leaking out around the impaction he can't help it. He had been withholding both poo and wee until be got home as he was scared of being told off which made the situation worse.

Pull ups cause him to regress and he will just go in them without trying the toilet.

Kyrptonite Fri 15-Nov-13 20:50:38

The school are shit. I'm irrationally pissed off. We only kept DS there this week as we thought the school might do something for children in need and it would be nice for him to take part. They did fuck all.
DS spent an hour last night drawing thank you cards for his teacher and TA. He wrote out 'to mrs x thank you love DS' trying so hard to form him letters the way they showed him. We took in a tub of sweets to say thank you.

He got a card from his TA thanking him for his lovely card and wishing him good luck. His teacher didn't even say thank you for the sweets and the head did some sickly sweet smile as he left as though she had actually helped him with his problems and I was just being an arse taking him out of an outstanding school.

I'm aware this is irrational. I'm just a bit nervous about the new school and the week he has at home next week on a load of laxatives!

LaGuardia Fri 15-Nov-13 20:47:55

I am so confused. If he is holding his poo until he gets home then he is capable of not having an 'accident' and actually making it to the toilet at school. TAs and teachers are not nurses and should not be expected to clear up poo. That is not what they signed up for. The child needs pull ups. End of.

clam Fri 15-Nov-13 19:44:03

Annual meeting? Wtf?

reup Fri 15-Nov-13 19:36:17

Good luck in the new school

YouTheCat Fri 15-Nov-13 10:24:03

He's not settled where he is anyway so I would hope the next school will be better.

The whole 'needing to discuss him at an annual meeting' thing for your ds to have an IEP is absolute bollocks.

Kyrptonite Fri 15-Nov-13 10:16:37

Tbf to the school they did say they would try and get him support but it could take a term or 2 to do so. DS is already hating school. One or two terms with no support could possibly lead to huge issues getting him to go into school in the future.

The head went on about his behaviour. I asked to see his IEP. He doesn't have one as it's not as simple as filling out a form yes it fucking is. I work in childcare and have done this and for her to assess him as SENCO she would need to discuss him at an annual meeting with a panel confused

It just all sounded like crap. They looked panicked when I explained how long DS might have to be on medication. They then moaned that his consultant hadn't prepared the letter explaining the condition yet.

I don't even know 100% that this new school will be for the best. I feel so guilty for uprooting him but I can't let him stay in that environment.

ItsOkayItsJustMyBreath Fri 15-Nov-13 10:08:45

Kryptonite I am fuming on your behalf. Your poor DS deserves far better treatment from his school.

FWIW, my DS has been on Lactulose, Senna, Movicol and now sodium picosulphate since he was about 10 months. Different diagnosis but I've had to do the impaction regime quite a few times. You can make up a big jug of movicol mixed with juice, keep it in the fridge, and give it to him throughout the day. DS won't drink it with just water and I can't say I blame him, it's foul!

He's only 2.9 now but after reading this I am dreading him going to school.

Good luck thanks

YouTheCat Fri 15-Nov-13 09:08:55

That was quick with the new school. Hope it's much better there and your ds gets sorted with the movicol.

Kyrptonite Fri 15-Nov-13 08:43:48

It's DS's last day at that school today. He starts at a more local one a week Monday and next week he is off to take the movicol.

Thank you everyone for the advice on this thread.

Kyrptonite Mon 11-Nov-13 18:39:54

Hmm I'm wondering if I could give 8 single doses. Surely it would have the same effect?

reup Mon 11-Nov-13 10:26:38

That the opposite way to how the consultant prescribed for my son for his clear out. he may have had 9 in one day but over 3 doses and it was only that intense for 3 days. , 8 at once is a lot of liquid . It's something like 32 ml per sachet.

Kyrptonite Sat 09-Nov-13 21:35:08

The consultant gave DS a schedule for the movicol.

Day 1- 2 sachets once a day
Day 2- 4 sachets once a day
Day 3- 6 sachets once a day
Day 4- 8 sachets once a day
Day 5- 4 sachets once a day for 10 days.

Am I understanding this correctly? 4 sachets in one go as opposed to 1 sachet 4 times a day? It's hard enough hiding once sachet in a drink!

cece Sat 09-Nov-13 15:51:36

I agree DD had problems for about 4 years before any doctors would take it seriously. She took movicol for 4/5 years before it was completely sorted.

3littlefrogs Fri 08-Nov-13 21:04:09

It usually takes at least as long as the problem has existed, sometimes twice as long. Treatment often has to be continued for years. It has to be viewed as a long term issue.

reup Fri 08-Nov-13 19:28:41

Also if he's been constipated or withholding his rectum will have enlarged (he had to swallow different shaped plastic bits for 3 days and then they xrayed him to see how far the had got. Mist just got stuck there). It will take a while to get back the muscle tone.

reup Fri 08-Nov-13 19:24:46

It was really fast. We had been struggling for 2 years (between age 2-4) with constipation, withholding, soiling. Continence nurse and local hospital hadn't helped. We had half heartedly tried regular toileting when first potty training. This time we did the 3 days of clear out then regular toileting. He was at school nursery then so I think we often tried after lunch too.

It was really great and for the next year we managed his problem so he didn't take himself but didn't have proper accidents either.

He then had an amazing 3 months of being totally normal and taking himself but then regressed which was depressing. Meanwhile he had various investigations at hospital to rule out anything more serious. After a colonoscopy they found he does have some sort of food intolerance but we had previously tried a wheat free and a dairy free diet to no avail. So now they are trying new meds to counteract that!

He is also seeing a psychologist there which hasn't done a great deal. He is also on the waiting list for play therapy via the school.

He doesn't have any concentration/behaviour issues though (that is my other child!)

Its all very hard. Unlike other posters I found the Eric site depressing as there were so many older children with the same issues that I could see no hope.

I also bought/downloaded every poo story ever. There is one called sneaky poo that hospitals use as well.

Kyrptonite Fri 08-Nov-13 18:58:08

I'm thinking of giving him my tablet and letting him watch an episode of something whilst he sits on the toilet.

How long did it take for your sons accidents to stop?

reup Fri 08-Nov-13 18:44:41

My son has similar problems and sees a consultant at Great Ormond Street. We did the loads of movicol for 3 days to clear an impaction. Our Dr only recommended 3 days of it then back to a lower dose. If I remember it was 3x3 for 3 days, the a maintenance dose of something like 2x2. He is now down to 2x1.

You can buy chocolate paediatric movicol. Or mix with correct amount of water and add a dash of nesquick or similar.

The thing that has helped the most is regularly taking them to the loo. I do it within 30 mins of breakfast and evening meal. They have to stay for at least 10 mins (or earlier if they poo). This stopped ALL the accidents (though he does still have small skid mark leakages). My son plays on something electronic ( though my itouch never recovered from being drooped in the loo!)

Kyrptonite Fri 08-Nov-13 18:33:47

grin friday

DS was saying earlier he likes his teacher but the head teacher hurts his feelings. He won't say why. I'd relish the opportunity to tell them to fuck off right now.

friday16 Fri 08-Nov-13 18:26:12

I have just realised that if I pull him out for a week or so whilst we deal with the impaction it could go down as unauthorised absence and I will be fined.

No, because you'd tell them to fuck off and they wouldn't dare do anything about it. "See you in court".

Kyrptonite Fri 08-Nov-13 18:16:18

Can they not fine before 5 then? I thought it was once he was on a school register then that was it.

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