To wonder why non-believers send their doc to faith schools

(196 Posts)
Latetothematch Tue 29-Oct-13 10:09:27

Not a thread about a thread but thought whilst reading a thread when reading 'dc goes to a faith school and comes home with questions but we don't believe'.

Why send your child to a school where you do not believe what it is teaching?

AmandaCooper Fri 01-Nov-13 07:35:53

The historical basis of the Christian festivals is not really the point anyway, Emma. There's nothing hypocritical about pretending you believe something to get what you want - that's just lying. Most non Christians enjoying Christmas and Easter with their families aren't even lying, they are just enjoying a community and family festival.

The hypocritical person would be the person who condemns her neighbour for playing the system (perhaps by calling them a hypocrite) while (or subsequently) playing the system in some way herself. Or to put it another way, let she who has never ever played the system cast the first stone.

Pachacuti Thu 31-Oct-13 20:23:29

"My understanding was that the usual criteria for church schools was something like 1. looked after/SEN 2. Churched children 3. Every body else. I would be very surprised if 2. filled up a school nowadays?"

Hahahahaha. Come and live near me. Well, don't, but if you did you'd find that 2 comfortably fills up a whole bunch of schools (although come to think of it, of the three Church schools that we're close enough to to be in with a good chance of a place if not for the churching thing, one of them (the one whose admissions criteria specify that only a certain number of places can be awarded on the basis of churching) did admit ONE pupil into Reception as a "community" (non-church) place last year. And that child lived 50m from the school when we're about 300m.

SuburbanRhonda Thu 31-Oct-13 17:59:28

mrswinklepicker, I bet you wouldn't be saying that if the school was persuading her that her parents had the wrong political views, rather than religious views!

Emmabombemma you called atheists who celebrate christmas hypocrites because you thought christmas was somehow owned by christians.

I'm afraid that the history is christmas is something you can look up. The Pope and the Archbishop of the CofE church will both confirm what I've said. it's not a big mystery.

Perhaps you were educated in a faith school in which case it's not entirely your fault that you didn't know.

MrsWinklepicker Thu 31-Oct-13 11:01:58

DD1 goes to a C of E primary school as we did not get a place at the local community school.

I am a bit hmm at the "Christian" value of the week poster in the school hall and the lunch time and end of day prayer that she recites daily and I nearly fell off my pew the first time I went to Harvest Festival and the whole school made the sign of the cross. I heard her telling another adult recently "Mummy says that some people believe in God and some people don't. Mummy and daddy don't believe in God but they are wrong". smile

But it's a lovely school and she is really happy and that's what matters. At the end of the day, she can and will make up her own mind about religion.

JassyRadlett Thu 31-Oct-13 10:54:40

Hetienne's right - and on the flipside the New Testament itself contains a lot of pointers to the fact that Jesus was born nowhere near December (what the shepherds were doing with the sheep, the timing of the Census, the timing of the conception of John the Baptist and the point Elizabeth has reached in her pregnancy when Mary conceived).

The co-opting of pagan festivals to the Christian calendar was a clever and successful PR job by the early church in its work to convert pagan communities. Christmas wasn't celebrated anywhere until about the fourth century.

hettienne Thu 31-Oct-13 09:59:44

I think there's a fair bit of historical evidence that mid winter festivals were celebrated well before the advent of Christianity tbh.

TheFabulousIdiot Thu 31-Oct-13 09:50:06

I think religion should be removed from all schools apart from Faith schools.

Am quite surprised by the people I know who have suddenly started attending church so their kids get into a certain school. Why do that to a child if you don't believe in God(s) yourself?

Emmabombemma Thu 31-Oct-13 09:47:46

Thanks hettie. Just saying that's back's opinion which she's entitled to. Whatever we believe it is all stories without proof.

hettienne Thu 31-Oct-13 09:23:43

You seemed a bit confused about the origins of Christmas Emma - I don't think Back was upset about anything, just explaining to you.

Emmabombemma Thu 31-Oct-13 09:22:43

Sorry meant to add that was in response to back, not suburban.

Emmabombemma Thu 31-Oct-13 09:20:37

I think from my posts you can see I am not commenting on, or trying to re-write, education policy (other than agreeing that more choice would be ideal). I've expressed my own opinion, as I have every right to do, without people like you getting shitty with me. I have the grace to respect your opinions, you should try the same. Have a lovely day!

SuburbanRhonda Thu 31-Oct-13 07:37:54

emma, I'm not sure if you've read the whole, thread, but there is no fear of religion in education here. People are just fed up of having to pay taxes to fund schools which under no circumstances would admit their child because the parents don't worship an imaginary supernatural being.

It's only a matter of time before someone comes on here claiming this is "another religion- bashing thread". It's not - it's about fair access to local schools and the rights of everyone to have their beliefs valued and respected, not just those who have religious views.

And I personally don't think it's about "not doing any harm". You may have had a good experience of religion in your school, but that all it is - your experience. It's no basis for education policy.

Emmabombemma Wed 30-Oct-13 23:00:24

Back why are you so upset about this?

ivykaty44 Wed 30-Oct-13 22:50:37

I suppose it has not dawned to some that winter solstice celebrations have been celebrated for around 4000 years in mid winter when night and day were almost equal and jesus was reputed to have been born only 2000 years ago and no-one was to sure what time of year he was born

Emmabombemma about once a month we get someone who doesn't know any better wondering why atheists are allowed to have christmas. I really should save one post and paste it in each time.

And you were the one calling people hypocritical.

ivykaty44 Wed 30-Oct-13 22:22:11

bubbles there are no secular schools in England, which country are you in?

Emmabombemma Wed 30-Oct-13 22:19:06

Tatty I agree. No problems at all with discussing it with my children etc. I guess I'm just not understanding the fear some people are feeling about religion in education.

Back that made me smile grin. Oh and never assume all people celebrate Christmas!

Bubbles1066 Wed 30-Oct-13 21:49:57

It's the nearest. Secular one is miles away.

TattyDevine but wouldn't it be better if they were taught about all religions in the first place instead of telling them to worship the god that the headteacher likes best?

What we have is a tug of war between the religions with the kids in the middle.

TattyDevine Wed 30-Oct-13 21:21:55

Lots of faith schools round here (rural Essex). Also, apparently collective worship features in the national curriculum (please correct me if wrong) so they may be exposed to it anyway - I'd rather unteach them bits at home or discuss it than shelter them from it, the education bit comes first.

HellsBellsnBucketsofBlood Wed 30-Oct-13 21:16:42

The only schools around here are faith schools (C of E). We have no choice at all. Would much prefer a secular school - but that's not going to happen any time soon.

Emmabombemma to expand on what nobodysbaby said about christmas it is in fact not a christian festival. The church moved the birth of jesus to the date we already celebrated so they could say "hey! look how many people celebrate the birth of baby jesus".

I hope no christians have a tree, holly or yule log as they are all pagan symbols not christian ones. Easter is just as bad. The eggs are to honor a fertility goddess.

Pretty sure Christians have a commandment about the worship of other gods, but don't let that stop you joining in the orgy of eating and present giving.

What was that about hypocrisy?

Emmabombemma Wed 30-Oct-13 18:23:29

In an ideal world there would be more choice yes. I'm saying I just don't think it does children any harm, therefore it's not that big a deal. Maybe you've had a bad experience but I haven't.

octopusinastringbag Wed 30-Oct-13 18:16:43

Rhonda I know the school you mean I think; it's discussed on fair admissions. It looks ridiculous sad

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