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to totally fail to understand why Sexism is never seen as bad as racism??

(306 Posts)
chemicalsister Sun 27-Oct-13 01:18:16

Following on from the Saudi Olympics thread, I keep getting upset about Sexism thriving in the modern world when racism is quite correctly - seen by the fast majority as clearly wrong and abhorent.
Even educated professionals have wound me up recently asserting we sholud adapt schools, especially first few years of infants , to better suit boys and their poorer attention span,
AND poor boys now do less well at exams at 16 so we must reduce course work etc..
I am old and remember when boys did better than girls at 16-- There was no outrage and plans to change exams then! It was just seen as inevitable ..... Fume!

It's not a competition though. Except in very special circumstances (like Mike Tyson's rape trial). What we should be doing is striving for an end to all discrimination based on the fact that it hurts everyone.

chemicalsister Sun 27-Oct-13 01:32:04

No course not a competition but why do so many people continue being sexist when they - righly -wouldn't ever be racist?
Sexism is as serious and am amazed so many still don't recogise it, or behave insexist ways.

Failing to recognise sexism isn't the same as saying it's less serious.

GoshAnneGorilla Sun 27-Oct-13 01:41:29

Chemicalsister - Quick question, are you white?

If the answer is yes, it is possible that you greatly underestimate how much racism is out there, just as many men underestimate how much sexism is out there.

Also, I think you have chosen some pretty controversial examples (leaving the Saudis aside) to make your point.

Grennie Sun 27-Oct-13 01:36:28

I agree with you that this is the case amongst the left/liberal types. Many white men will be overtly sexist when they would never be overtly racist.

CanucksoontobeinLondon Sun 27-Oct-13 01:41:51

Speaking as a woman who is not white, I think sexism and racism intersect. At one point in my life, I'll find that sexism is holding me back more, and at another point i'll find that racism is holding me back more. Often, though, it's a toxic mixture of the two that's tough to analyze and say, "this bit is worse than the other." They're both bad.

There's plenty of unrecognised racism amongst white left/liberal types in my experience.

mynewpassion Sun 27-Oct-13 02:19:07

I don't see it as being sexist when discussing changing some learning techniques to better help increase boys' education/learning. Stats do show that many boys aren't doing as well as girls in schools.

Just as I don't see it as being sexist when schools have programs to encourage girls to go into the science and math fields and they don't offer the same with boys.

These two things are trying to help each gender achieve their best and in the girls' program, also trying to level the playing field.

You might have seen it as they aren't caring but policies have been changing, not as rapidly but still changing.

squoosh Sun 27-Oct-13 02:34:25

I don't really understand this divide and conquer attitude. Discrimination is discrimination whether it's based on the colour of your skin or the shape of your genitals.

A person's sex can present specific obstacles and also a person's race can present a different set of obstacles.

It's worth keeping in mind also that sexism and racism are often intertwined.

VikingLady Sun 27-Oct-13 03:25:13

Possibly because you very seldom hear anyone saying their own race is lesser than another, but a lot of women still seem to believe men are better.

harticus Sun 27-Oct-13 07:04:30

Don't understand the thing about not wanting boys to maximise their potential - never have done.
If boys are lagging behind it must be addressed.
How does having underachieving boys help the feminist cause?

Poverty and class prejudice still underpin underachievement - poor white boys and poor black boys are being failed by our education system.
And when those poor black boys leave school they become the most demonised and harassed section of our society ... the young black male.

trish5000 Sun 27-Oct-13 07:26:39

In your example, boys are being helped. With racism, no one is helped.

<waves to Grennie>

trish5000 Sun 27-Oct-13 07:32:54

If you were poor, and you yourself had a son at an underacheiving school who did indeed have a low attention span, you would want help for him wouldnt you.

ApocalypseThen Sun 27-Oct-13 07:36:02

Don't understand the thing about not wanting boys to maximise their potential - never have done.

That's not the point at all. The point is that society consciously rigs educational attainment in favour of boys - initially denying girls an education for various stupid reasons and girls had to get on with things and just fight for the right to be educated and then adapt to whatever system existed. And girls - contrary to expectations - have excelled. Now that girls are doing better, the natural order has been upset so girls must adapt again.

What are they going to do when education is changed to advantage boys again? It'll have to be to keep the sexists happy. At no point will society ever deal with the actual problems and sort out the toxic behaviour associated with many males, and the poverty of expectation around what is acceptable behaviour from them.

sashh Sun 27-Oct-13 07:46:36

AND poor boys now do less well at exams at 16 so we must reduce course work etc..I am old and remember when boys did better than girls at 16-- There was no outrage and plans to change exams then! It was just seen as inevitable ..... Fume!

That just proves your point, even you have accepted sexism. Boys have NEVER out performed girls in exams. In the days of 'boys did better' it was actually that girls were not allowed to take certain subjects.

And why should boys work harder at school, they will find it easier to get work and be paid more than the girls?

chemicalsister Sun 27-Oct-13 07:46:38

Course I don't mind boys or any child being helped when needed but I was shocked that I heard of a school that had a summer born boys reading catch-up group. It was actually called that. One of my dauughters was welll behibd at reading at one point at a difderenr school, but just got me thinking how sexist some attitudes were. what did that school do if they had a summed born girl who needed help? Or that never happened?
Also many people in education still seem to expect less better behavior from boys
eg if a boy is dirruptivr or hits someone there is so less reavtion than if a girl does it.
Maybe it just my area, where boys Will be boys you know !?

ApocalypseThen Sun 27-Oct-13 07:50:10

Also many people in education still seem to expect less better behavior from boys

It's not just in education. Girls are expected to be quiet, diligent, careful and compliant. It may not be any more natural for girls either, but who cares? Society does not accept antisocial behaviour from girls but indulges boys.

chemicalsister Sun 27-Oct-13 07:55:36

Apocolypsethen Exactly! I am toally against racism of course and I beleive it is much worse and goes deeper than many suspect, but by the year 2013 I am very shocked that people openly say blatantly sexist attitudes without even the awareness they are discriminating.
Media attitude to a man being a nanny or cleaner, lots of concern IME of schools saying oh dear a book or drama lesson must be appealing to poor left out boys while every playtime they take over 80 of the playground playing football but no one addresses what if girls want to join in or fed up with no space!
Problems that affect boys seen as more serious.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

arethereanyleftatall Sun 27-Oct-13 08:14:39

Racism is worse because there is obviously no difference between people whether they are black or white.
Sexism does indeed exist in adults, I agree.
But....males and females ARE different. Just watch any group of 2 year olds playing and it is immediately obvious. Accept this.

chibi Sun 27-Oct-13 08:19:13

many many women are negatively affected by both sexism and racism, it is not possible to unpick if one is 'as bad' as the other since it is not possible to choose to be oppressed just by one.

ApocalypseThen Sun 27-Oct-13 08:21:39

* Just watch any group of 2 year olds playing and it is immediately obvious. Accept this.*

The socialisation process has kicked in with two year olds. They even talk and all kinds of things.

meddie Sun 27-Oct-13 08:23:18

It is something that bothers me also. you only have to look at the consequences in the media of both a racist and a sexist 'event'

presenter/politician says something racist . immediate outrage and calls for resignation.

I very rarely see the same level of response to a sexist comment. maybe a token wrist slap, but they very rarely resign over it.

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