To think not looking like you parents

(215 Posts)
DevonLodger Wed 23-Oct-13 20:59:48

Is not a good reason to take a child into care and carry out a DNA test.

I look nothing like my daughters. Should I be worried?

TeWiSavesTheDay Wed 23-Oct-13 21:36:39

Yup, that's also true rhetoric. Families are complicated.

friday16 Wed 23-Oct-13 21:37:48

I would love there to be a report from the Irish authorities that explains how this has happened

The police are (a) stupid and (b) racist. Next question?

PenelopePipPop Wed 23-Oct-13 21:39:23

There are two questions surely? Should parents who do not look like their children expect to have to prove their children are theirs with DNA testing?

There are obviously occasions when that is OK - when another parent turns up saying the child is theirs, or something else places the index of suspicion very high. But not just 'being a different colour' because that misunderstands the whole of genetics and indeed evolution.

The other more alarming question is why does the child need to be removed from the parent's care whilst the tests take place? Again unless they have extraordinary evidence the parents will flee (which can be managed by asking to surrender passports) they do not need to take the child out of her home.

TeWiSavesTheDay Wed 23-Oct-13 21:39:39

There was a record of the child at the hospital though, this is one if the reason's child was returned.

I find the idea that things are believed or not based on hospital records quite scary though! I regularly see it on here that someone has requested hospital records only to be told they are lost. I know some of mine are missing.

Why do you think the police are stupid? friday
I admit that the media stories may not be completely accurate, but as I read it, they gave false information and refused to give DNA samples. Is that not enough to raise suspicion?

rhetorician Wed 23-Oct-13 21:42:14

Well I'd be fucked if they asked for documentation. I could produce their birth certs and give time of birth etc, but i have nothing that would prove my relationship to them. I think it's outrageous and needs to be investigated thoroughly. Anyone who wants to get a sense of how ingrained these attitudes are should look at politics.ie and the thread opened on this. Absolutely shocking attitudes.

JackNoneReacher Wed 23-Oct-13 21:42:20

I think 'lack of documentation' may be wishful thinking gobbolino. If this was the case the police would be shouting about it but its not even mentioned in the report.

More like racist police act on vindictive report.

harticus Wed 23-Oct-13 21:42:30

There was another Roma child too - a 2 year old boy who was removed from his parents in Athlone for 2 days.

It is a witch-hunt of Roma people.

kangarooshoes Wed 23-Oct-13 21:42:38

Hospital records are very fallible.

I am terrified by this. It smacks of "rescuing pretty blonde kids from those darkies".

It is racism, and particularly nasty racism. I thought this was awful before the DNA test result.

If the child was well cared for, they should have awaited the DNA result. Disgusting.

rhetorician Wed 23-Oct-13 21:44:31

Agree with jack absolute bullshit from the gardai. In this part of Dublin 9 times out of 10 when a motorist is pulled over they turn out to be (in that wonderfully evasive term) a non national. At least that's what I've observed.

JackNoneReacher Wed 23-Oct-13 21:45:45

I agree with friday the police are stupid. To believe that it is acceptable to remove a child from their family because they don't look like their siblings. wtf?

There was no other issue here - such as a suggestion that the child wasn't being cared for properly - or she wouldn't have been returned.

friday16 Wed 23-Oct-13 21:46:03

I admit that the media stories may not be completely accurate, but as I read it, they gave false information and refused to give DNA samples.

Do you think that the police should be able to demand that people prove that they are the parents of their child, just by saying so?

And (whisper it), a lot of children are not the genetic offspring of their parents. That fact may be unknown to the parties involved, too. Are we going to see a general programme of going around demanding DNA samples from parents who children look a bit different, or will this just be the Roma? Oh yes, it's just the Roma.

Fortunately, no other group in Ireland has a nasty habit of taking children and selling them for adoption oh yes, apart from the massively large church in every town.

givemeaboost Wed 23-Oct-13 21:56:36

It doesn't look good, but I prefer them taking the child first and asking questions later- its a pity English SS don't do the same, plenty of kids are "surviving" in abusive homes whilst the "professionals" dither about what to do, if anything.

If they had waited, or dna tested whilst leaving the child there, there's a strong possibility that the family would've disappeared, then they would've got flak for that, I think they acted responsibly and in the best interests of the child.
The main thing is the child has been promptly returned since the dna test.

And to the poster above saying a day in care will scar the individual for life(?!) thlbiscuit give over

TeWiSavesTheDay Wed 23-Oct-13 22:03:35

Seriously? Of course it's traumatic. Imagine being seven (or two, like the little boy) and being forcibly removed from your family, and not knowing if you will be able to go back.

There's a reason it's not generally and shouldn't be done casually.

friday16 Wed 23-Oct-13 22:08:19

I prefer them taking the child first and asking questions later

Yeah, that worked well on Orkney.

JackNoneReacher Wed 23-Oct-13 22:12:10

I'm totally in favour of removing children from abusive homes.

But not on the basis of not looking like their siblings/parents.

I presume the people who are happy for this to take place would be happy for their own children to be removed for a couple of nights to be on the safe side, perhaps on the basis of having different coloured eyes/hair?

harticus Wed 23-Oct-13 22:16:05

The main thing is the child has been promptly returned since the dna test

Er no.
The main thing is that there seems to be some systematic targeting of the Roma community based on some hysterical premise and this is what is known as racism.

archieplacid Wed 23-Oct-13 22:16:09

May I wade in with Cleveland too for that matter. It is racist and reflects the belief of a few members of my own Irish family. One in particular who looked forward to the day these poor children, begging on the street (not true) were returned to their rightful families. And the country flooded with them, claiming benefits...shocingI took a moment to remind her that this sort of prejudice led to many many ROmas being murdered in Auschwitz.

archieplacid Wed 23-Oct-13 22:17:24

By the by my youngest daughter has red hairei and brown eyes. I have neither. When my eldest was born (her father is Spanish) my Irish extended family wanted to know if the baby was black....seriously

MrsDeVere Wed 23-Oct-13 22:20:05

The fact is, in this country, you could NOT remove a child from a family based on it not looking like its parents.
Even if they couldn't provide the documents you wanted immediately.

To remove a child in an emergency there needs to be evidence of significant risk.

Not looking like your dad and your birth certificate looking a bit dodgy does not meet this criteria.

Dress it up whatever way you want, these cases have stunk from the off.

The Roma have not been afford the same protection as you and I.

Because they are Roma.

Who is next I wonder?

BrianTheMole Wed 23-Oct-13 22:22:33

It is a witch hunt. Its not bloody on. Imagine some one coming to your house and taking your child because they don't look like you. That poor kid, utterly terrifying.

Jossysgiants Wed 23-Oct-13 22:23:16

It is truly chilling. Those poor children. I think about my 6 year old - I cannot imagine the impact of being removed from her home for two days for not looking like her parents. It makes me feel quite sick. I find it troubling that this type of action is justified by the 'on the safe side' argument. This is how freedom is dismantled bit by bit.

On the documentation... I have a different last name and nationality to my DD and have traveled with her internationally extensively (she has been on about 20 flights). I am almost never asked to prove anything. She looks NOTHING like her passport picture. I have had no issues.

Anyone care to guess my hair and skin colour? Yep, blonde and white. I waltz through immigration. If I was Roma, do you think I would? I don't.

archieplacid Wed 23-Oct-13 22:25:15

May I also point out there was no signs of neglect or abuse. A neighbor rang the authorities with a spurious opinion that a kid was unlike its siblings.
If it also needs pointing out, the Irish have not been particularly sympathetic to the Travelling community that already exists in their country. I witnessed a mob of people (all present at mass the following SUnday mor yah) heading out to a traveler encampment to move them on. This included children and the entire event occurred in the middle of the night. Women, children and old people forced onto the road by nice people who felt they had a god given right to do so, no qualms.

JackNoneReacher Wed 23-Oct-13 22:26:03

I wonder if the same is true in Ireland MrsDV but the police decided to take the children anyway.

Hard to believe you can lawfully remove children on this premise.

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