to think when Brits complain about immigrants not integrating

(130 Posts)
redpipe Sun 20-Oct-13 13:10:45

or learning English, it's a bit of a pot, kettle, black scenario.

I just heard someone moaning about immigrants not integrating or learning English when I happen to know their parents actually live in Majorca in an ex pat community and don't speak Spanish.

I think the there are loads of Brits living abroad in countries that don't speak English who don't integrate, learn the language or mix much with locals.

AIBU to think that we are probably one of the worst nations for integrating when we emigrate and learning languages but the first to moan about people not integrating in the UK.

But that's not them personally is it? I would find it a bit rich if someone who lived in aforementioned expat community was banging on about it, but me personally, I do think they should learn the language and integrate more, in the same way I wouldn't dream of going to live in a foreign country and not learning to speak the language, its just rude.
I do recognise there are some difficulties in certain communities for women who aren't "allowed" to learn English though.

SeaSickSal Sun 20-Oct-13 13:18:56

Maybe they don't approve of their parents doing it either?

Trills Sun 20-Oct-13 13:20:25

"British people" are not a homogeneous mass.

It's perfectly possible for some British people to do something that other British people disapprove of, without anyone being a hypocrite.

ilovesooty Sun 20-Oct-13 13:22:51

The UK attitude to learning other languages is generally pretty blinkered but I think there are two separate issues in play here.

redpipe Sun 20-Oct-13 13:23:23

Trills
I haven't said all Brits have I?

Strumpetron Sun 20-Oct-13 13:26:21

RedPipe but the ones complaining aren't in an other country so they aren't the ones not integrating over there are they?

Trills Sun 20-Oct-13 13:27:19

"Pot calling the kettle black" applies only when you criticise someone for doing something that you do yourself.

Other British people are not "myself". They are separate other people.

Milkjug Sun 20-Oct-13 13:28:48

It's based on a racist premise. 'But we are white and wear M and S underwear and drink Liptons' tea, we are NORMAL, not like those funny brown types wearing strange clothes, going to mosques and stinking of curried goat!'

redpipe Sun 20-Oct-13 13:29:20

Trills
I have no idea what you are saying sorry.

BrokenSunglasses Sun 20-Oct-13 13:29:52

YABU if you are calling someone hypocritical on the basis of what their parents do.

As far as I'm aware, I can't control what my parents do and do not choose to do, and as an adult my opinions are not based on my parents actions.

redpipe Sun 20-Oct-13 13:30:25

Strumpetron
I have also heard Brits who live abroad moan about this issue whilst supping a San Miguel on the beach.

Strumpetron Sun 20-Oct-13 13:30:52

redpipe they are hypocrites then, not the ones complaining here.

Laquitar Sun 20-Oct-13 13:31:14

If your friend's parents are pensioners or have rental income from uk they are not dedpetate to learn the language i suppose.
If you are young, need to work, you are raising family here and planning to stay then yes you have to learn the language. How are you going to work and how are you going to support your dcs with schoolwork and activities?

Heartbrokenmum73 Sun 20-Oct-13 13:31:26

Oh, this thread isn't going to turn nasty at all. Nope, not going to happen.

<waits for patently racist eejits to turn up>

Pobblewhohasnotoes Sun 20-Oct-13 13:34:02

I think people who move here should try and learn the language as I would try and do if I moved abroad. Obviously I know some women aren't 'allowed' to learn English, which is a type of isolation abuse (I learnt).

I wonder if some people in large communities don't have to learn English and get by without it.

Not sure my post is worded that well.

harticus Sun 20-Oct-13 13:34:09

Most of the people I know who have emigrated to non-English speaking countries have embraced the life style and language - it is what drew them in the first place.
I certainly don't moan about people not integrating into the UK and I don't know anybody who does.
Hate clichés me.

redpipe Sun 20-Oct-13 13:34:25

I haven't actually said they are hypocrites I was explaining where my train of thought came from.

EBearhug Sun 20-Oct-13 13:37:09

I do know someone who goes on about how awful it is there are so many immigrants these days - and then goes on about his years in Saudi and elsewhere, without any sense of irony.

I'm not sure though, that the people who complain about immigrants are always the same ones who move abroad to English-speaking enclaves. There probably is some cross-over, but not entirely (we need a Venn diagram to show it.) Plenty of people move abroad and learn the language, and plenty of immigrants to Britain learn English. And a Polish colleague, to whom I had said I was learning Welsh, most annoyingly said, "Dw ddim yn siarad Cymraeg" (I don't speak Welsh) - she'd spent a couple of years in Wales and had at least learned some basics of Welsh (her English is fluent.)

People are very good at not noticing the things which don't fit in with their prejudices, though.

BrokenSunglasses Sun 20-Oct-13 13:41:37

You are generalising too much. IMO, anyone who moves to another country should try to integrate and if need be, learn at least English of the other language to get by.

It's rude no matter what country you come from, so the Brits that have moved to Spain without ever trying to learn basic Spanish and integrate are no better and no worse than any of the many people that come to Britain without trying to learn English and integrate.

Laquitar Sun 20-Oct-13 13:47:08

But also people meam different things by 'learning the language'.
Some mean that they can say 'can i have an ice cream' in the local language.

Laquitar Sun 20-Oct-13 13:53:48

But also people meam different things by 'learning the language'.
Some mean that they can say 'can i have an ice cream' in the local language.

Laquitar Sun 20-Oct-13 13:54:21

Ops sorry

I am from an immigrant family going way back, around the world, most of the men in my family have the Merchant Navy background and settled in other countries than their birth, then have often uprooted again, iyswim.

There is a big difference in someone having the income to retire to a country and expecting to live in a country, work and be a part of that society, especially whilst raising children and making no attempt to try to learn the language etc.

There seems to be an increase of bus drivers in my area that speak or understand very little English. I know that there has been a big recruitment drive in other EU countries.

They get paid the same wages, there is an over application from UK drivers whenever jobs are advertised. So if anyone comments that they have the right to use their local transport system and the staff should be able to speak the language of that country, I totally agree.

That is just one example.

There was a report in a Newspaper about industrial accidents, the numbers involving workplaces that contain non English speaking/first language are disproportionate and increasing.

I want it to be explained why my DD who has LDs may never be able to drive because her reading level isn't good enough, or hold some H&S certificates, yet they can be held by people who cannot speak English and I bus can be operated by some who cannot communicate with the passengers if there is an accident.

That happened to my FIL ( he was well compensated) they had to make their own arrangements to go to hospital. The driver didn't seem to understand or be concerned that people had broken bones.

I also don't think that a child should have to be a translator for their parents when they have lived in that country since before the child was born and plan on staying. Unless there are LD/disability's present.

That is regardless of were you live.

You are over generalising OP, I know people who work the summer in Ibiza, Turkey etc who make the effort to speak at least two other languages conversationally.

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