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To think the school need to support my child

(341 Posts)
mychildisnotnaughty Thu 10-Oct-13 19:02:38

DS turned 4 at the end of July so started in reception as one of the youngest. Hes been struggling and today I was called in because he ran out of the hall in a PE lesson then when the TA tried to get him back in, he had a tantrum. He then had to wear his PE kit the rest of the day as he refused to get changed and he had no top on as he refused to wear his t shirt.

They said he won't line up either and runs off, also had a tantrum when going to lunch. Also keeps trying to run off at the end of the day.

At the moment I feel he is not being supported, they just keep trying to put him in time out but this doesn't work, I said he needs ignoring but they said that isn't possible. To me it's all down to him being a summer born.

They also complained he's been annoying the school rabbit, this really upset me as at home he loves animals.

AIBU to think they need to do more to help than ring me, as he behaves fine at home so I can't do anything.

Fairenuff Thu 10-Oct-13 22:14:18

The school will be using strategies and supporting the child. They will have explained the rules and consequences. They will reinforce the rules, give lots of praise and rewards for positive behaviour.

They also have a duty to inform the parent if there is a problem that is more than expected for the age of the child. That is what they have done.

I was called in because he ran out of the hall in a PE lesson then when the TA tried to get him back in, he had a tantrum. He then had to wear his PE kit the rest of the day as he refused to get changed and he had no top on as he refused to wear his t shirt

What would you like the staff to do when he refuses to get changed or wear his t shirt OP?

They said he won't line up either and runs off, also had a tantrum when going to lunch. Also keeps trying to run off at the end of the day

He could maybe benefit from a visual timetable, showing the routine and expected behaviour. You absolutely can, and should, reinforce the importance of not running away from staff.

MissBattleaxe Thu 10-Oct-13 22:29:37

OP- interesting username.

There are several negative affirmations in your opening post. "It's all down to him being summer born", "I said he needs ignoring" and "I can't do anything"

Presumably your DS is alone with you at home and his behaviour is "fine" according to you. However, from your description it sounds like he behaves differently in a group. I think you need to stop being defensive and work with the school without making them your enemy. You both want to solve this, so make them your ally not your enemy.

PS one parent's definition of "fine" maybe not be another's.

brambleandapple Thu 10-Oct-13 22:30:53

Fairenuff explaining rules and consequences is not additional support, every child receives this.

Visual timetables might be a place to start, but the OP has not mentioned whether the school are trialling this. A TA may also be able to support a child within the line by holding his hand and taking him in or out first or perhaps last.

brambleandapple Thu 10-Oct-13 22:37:00

Btw a relative of mine's DC has started reception at the same time and half the class cry at lining up to go in, some refuse to do this at all without their parents. So not that unusual.

BrokenSunglasses Thu 10-Oct-13 22:37:51

Bramble you are being ridiculous. It is really quite extreme to be going on about what funding the school should be accessing and spending immediately when when they are only just at the stage of identifying a problem after the initial settling in stage and getting in touch with Mum.

And when you say that the OP says that her child had no support, do you honestly believe that the child has had literally no support.

Doesn't it make a lot more sense to believe that a child who is upsetting a class pet, running out of class lines, throwing tantrums, refusing to get dressed and has been put in numerous time outs might just be taking up quite a large percentage of the teacher and TA's time and attention?

brambleandapple Thu 10-Oct-13 22:40:52

The funding is relative, because the funding for quite a significant amount of additional support is available, immediately, from the school's budget, if needed.

brambleandapple Thu 10-Oct-13 22:44:33

Relevant^ typo

lougle Thu 10-Oct-13 22:45:58

Bringing this around to factual information, the SEN Code of Practice says:

"5:44 The triggers for intervention through School Action could be the teacher’s or others’ concern, underpinned by evidence, about a child who *despite receiving differentiated learning opportunities*:
-makes little or no progress even when teaching approaches are targeted particularly in a child’s identified area of weakness
-shows signs of difficulty in developing literacy or mathematics skills which result in poor attainment in some curriculum areas
-*presents persistent emotional or behavioural difficulties which are not* ameliorated by the behaviour management techniques usually employed in the school
-has sensory or physical problems, and continues to make little or no progress despite the provision of specialist equipment
-has communication and/or interaction difficulties, and continues to make little or no progress despite the provision of a differentiated curriculum." Pp. 52-53

So, it's clear from the SEN Code of Practice that before the child is considered to have SEN, they would have had to exhaust all 'normal' methods of intervention available within the school.

I agree with fairenuff that it is too early to be talking about the need for £6k of funding to be spent before the high needs block is accessed - you're not anywhere close to that.

This may well be simply teething issues (for example, my DD3 loves school but cries almost every morning at the door -she is having a differentiated strategy in the form of a sticker if she comes in smiling). It may not be, but the OP needs to engage with the staff to work out what can be done to support her DS from within the school's normal range of methods.

If the normal range of methods don't work and there are still problems, then it may be worth a shift to School Action.

Fairenuff Thu 10-Oct-13 22:51:54

I imagine that if a child is refusing to line up, he is not going to calmly walk to the line holding the adult's hand.

The school will be using lots of strategies. In fact, getting the parent involved is one of the strategies.

I have four children in my class with behaviour difficulties. Only one qualifies for 1-1 support. The other three need to be managed along with the rest of the class without any additional support other than the class teacher and one TA.

OP does your ds have an IEP? Have you spoken to SENCO about him? If not, I would suggest that you ask for a meeting.

brambleandapple Thu 10-Oct-13 22:53:06

There is no School Action and School Action Plus any longer, just Low Needs (taken from the school's budget) and High Needs support (top up funding applied for).

Yes, they should be exhausting normal methods of intervention. I too believe this is quite possibly teething problems.

However the OP says the school has called her several times, as what they are doing is insufficient for the moment. Low needs includes short term additional help, which may be all this child needs.

FortyDoorsToNowhere Thu 10-Oct-13 22:53:38

If the child gets FSM, there is funding for him.

There is things you can do at home, get a special sticker chart and when he earns 10 stickers in school he can have a treat. I suggested buying the stickers for the teacher ( she said it was fine as she has a bizzilion stickers)

I don't know how tight your budget is or your routines so these are examples.

Popcorn with a dvd, a colouring book with new crayons, magazine, a small toy, extra screen time, Go to the park, soft play.

It worked with my son who has ASD.

BrokenSunglasses Thu 10-Oct-13 22:54:33

You are missing the point.

What on earth would they do with funding before they even have a chat with the Mum?

The OP is strongly implying that she doesn't even the school should be phoning her when her child is having problems, and clearly stating that she can't do anything. Strangely, you seem to be supporting that attitude.

What makes you think they haven't had TAs lining up with him, or that they don't use a visual timetable? Our reception class does that very basic stuff as a matter of course, along with other normal things you do with four year olds. We'd still call a parent in for a chat if a child was consistently displaying the behaviours described.

Calling a parent can be in addition to other things that the school are doing. Spending funding on supporting a child with difficulties and discussions with parents are not two things that are mutually exclusive.

FortyDoorsToNowhere Thu 10-Oct-13 22:58:58

Both DC know if the teacher has a word about them it results in action being taking at home.

Positive words = postive action.
negetive word = negitive action.

Its been harder with DS as it figuring if symtom of his austism or general bad behaviour.

brambleandapple Thu 10-Oct-13 23:00:30

At the moment I feel he is not being supported, they just keep trying to put him in time out but this doesn't work..

I assumed the school would have told the OP of other strategies that they are using. The OP probably feels powerless to help as her advice was not appropriate for a school setting. She probably would have been more reassured if they had informed her of other strategies at their disposal.

lougle Thu 10-Oct-13 23:08:06

"There is no School Action and School Action Plus any longer, just Low Needs (taken from the school's budget) and High Needs support (top up funding applied for)."

brambleandapple, you are confusing funding mechanisms with SEN provision. School Action and School Action Plus are still in place and will be until September 2014, where the designation will change to 'SEN Support' as a catch-all category.

The funding mechanisms have changed and schools now get a higher devolved budget for SEN, from which they are expected to fund SEN Support for children on School Action, School Action Plus and Statements up to the value of £6k plus the AWPU received per child. Nominally, a 'high needs' statement is one that is valued at £10k plus because of this.

The school has called the parent several times because they are expected to work in partnership with parents and a parent can't support the school if they don't know the issue exists.

NCFail Thu 10-Oct-13 23:21:47

For what it's worth...

I am FAR down this line - child has ASD & challenging behaviour... we have been in a terrible school AND now in a very good school.

Challenging behaviour at school is not owned by either party - it is neither the school or the parents responsibility alone.

Communication is key - current school and I have concluded that we can not use the same strategies as they work differently in peer groups but we share information every day. I do a lot of background work around downtime, routines, sleep, etc and school use more formal approaches & interventions.

Neither of us have cracked it but we have it managed most of the time.

You tell a parent that she is solely responsible or she has to take her child out of school to solve the issue then you are basically giving her the message that SHE is to blame for the behaviour and school has no role to play in resolving this issue...

...which they do - WHATEVER is causing the behaviour. Yes even if the underlying cause is that he has no routine or preparation for school because who is better placed to be educating mum on how to help him best. By doing that they will find out that she is either doing it but its making no difference (which might be a red flag) OR mum didn't realise how big a transition it would be and after some support in school & at home it all settles.

Hang in there OP - request a meeting with the teacher and ask to come up with a plan for home & school with a review date. Also suggest a home / school book until the next review.

TheBuskersDog Thu 10-Oct-13 23:41:42

brambleandapple you are talking about SEN and funding, isn't it more likely that this is a 4 year old who doesn't like having to do what an adult asks of them when they are asked to do it, quite possibly because they have never had to do so and they have not been taught that they should do so. In my school there is a whole class of summer-borns and whilst some allowances are made for their immaturity compared to the autumn-born children, they are not all allowed to run around doing what they want.

Parents often say they have no problems with behaviour at home, but we have all seen children behaving in an inappropriate way but whose parents seem to think their behaviour is fine, it's all subjective.

The OP may well be able to ignore her child and not engage with him at home if he is having a tantrum but school staff cannot do this. Most four year olds would not have a tantrum at school when told to do something, but just because the OP's child does doesn't mean he has SEN -he may just not have been taught that it is not appropriate behaviour.

PeppiNephrine Fri 11-Oct-13 00:00:20

Crazy to be in school at that age. I have one the same age and he's in preschool, he's far too young for school.

farewellfarewell Fri 11-Oct-13 00:02:50

sounds too young for school, that's all.

cory Fri 11-Oct-13 07:26:35

It is a tricky situation and I think there are various things you should be doing now, OP.

The first is to speak to your college tutor. Explain that you are going through a bit of a difficult patch and may need to take some time to sort it. In a sense it's not that different from if your ds had fallen ill in the early weeks of the term: it's a situation you need to be involved in.

The second is to speak to the school. Try not to sound defensive, try not to sound defeatist, try to sound as if you see yourself as a member of a team. But don't be afraid to ask (politely) for their suggestions and what measures they have put in place.

Basically everything NCFail said. Just don't forget to communicate with your college too. The more you keep people in the loop the more understanding they will be.

brambleandapple Fri 11-Oct-13 07:41:47

you are talking about SEN and funding, isn't it more likely that this is a 4 year old who doesn't like having to do what an adult asks of them when they are asked to do it, quite possibly because they have never had to do so and they have not been taught that they should do so. In my school there is a whole class of summer-borns and whilst some allowances are made for their immaturity compared to the autumn-born children, they are not all allowed to run around doing what they want.

I talk about SEN and funding because the school has not, as yet, informed the OP of any other strategies (apart from sanctions) at their disposal.

I agree, as stated up thread, this might just be 'teething problems'. However, I also think, if the school believes there may be a problem, they must be proactive with regards to solving it. If they only are informing the OP, and expecting her to have all the answers and take sole responsibility, they are not being proactive or doing all they can that is within their power to solve the issues. If this is the case, and I hope it is not, all they are doing is complaining.

tshirtsuntan Fri 11-Oct-13 08:10:55

bramble just wondered at use of the word "strategy" if a child behaves well at home the occasional distraction or explanation is sometimes necessary.wouldn't call that a strategy! In my experience of caring for other families children and my own there is usually one or two children who take a bit longer to settle into the routines and expectations of school,whether it manifests as the running around and disobeying here or crying. Half term is usually a good point to aim for as almost all will have settled by then,any drastic action ( removal from school, previously unneeded assessments) May be too soon and cause more issues.

brambleandapple Fri 11-Oct-13 08:22:00

Tshirt I'm not advocating 'drastic action' at this stage. My definition of 'strategy' is just taking any consistent positive planned action to solve an issue. So 'distraction' can be a strategy if used with forethought, in a consistent way.

Gileswithachainsaw Fri 11-Oct-13 08:36:20

In all honesty he doesn't sound ready for school. Schools always have the option to defer a term and fine offer the half day option.

I think you need to realise this and work around it somehow. Would it he possible to study from home in the afternoons, can a friend take him? I know college makes it difficult but honestly, you can't dump him into school when he's not ready and expect school to deal with it and do it all for you. Ignoring isn't possible, you need to instigate something else that is possible in a school setting.

wonderingsoul Fri 11-Oct-13 09:11:57

i dont think the problem is that he is to young.

i think the problem is more likely to be that he is used to being ignored at home for bad behaviour, so is expecting the same at school.

that is just not acceptable route at school, and i dont think it allways acceptable at home to.

op i would ask for a meeting and ask what t hey do at school. it could be some sort of chart.. like ours do a rainbow, sun and cloud. they strat at the rainbow each morning and depending on their behaviour they get moved to the sun or cloud, or stay on the rainbow.

the naughty/ time out space.

he sounds like he needs boundries, not to be ignored.

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