To think that Gove is correct?

(115 Posts)
Trapper Wed 09-Oct-13 07:59:10

Despite the consistently good GCSE and A level grades, we have been ranked 22nd out of 24 OECD countries for literacy and numeracy. AIBU to think Gove is correct to be challenging the status quo and shaking up education?

Worried123456 Sun 20-Oct-13 23:48:44

I totally agree, jamdonut; we cannot be the only ones either!

jamdonut Sun 20-Oct-13 14:19:01

TBH, Gove is the only reason I would not vote conservative at the next election. They either get rid of him or lose my vote.( And I have always voted conservative, since 1982). I never thought I would ever say that.But enough is enough ,already.

I can't be the only one who thinks like this.

To be fair, I think I have already made my mind up.

pointythings Fri 11-Oct-13 18:45:41

Yes, Northern it's the mid-stream goal post moving and the political manipulation of real people's lives that makes me angriest about him. To Michael Gove, children are tools to further his political career, tools for him to score points with. He doesn't care when thousands of them don't get the marks they would have had without his meddling, wrecking their plans for further education. They aren't real people to him at all.

My oldest child is in Year 11. Last week they did the mocks for English and Maths. She got As in both but really wants A* (I don't give a stuff tbh. Anything above C is fine with me). She is now very motivated and focused on November BUT her school are trying to work out what the hell to do. She may not be able to take the exam she's been working towards. It's unbelievable that the changes affect the current cohort. Gove is actually playing politics with the life chance sof our children. There is talk too of uncertainty over grade boundaries. Again because of political manipulation.
I can't stand any of the coalition but Gove is right up there are one of the worst. Stupid (yes Michael you actualy are as thick as they come, you're just too dim to notice) and blinded by ideology.

Wish he'd come on for a webchat............

soul2000 Fri 11-Oct-13 18:31:37

I also think another thing Micheal Gove sees himself as the heir to
Sir Keith Joseph.
Who was of course the great Tory "talent" from the right of the party. I have just been reading a book about Keith Joseph and despite
the fact that Joseph was born in To the Bovis building family and great wealth, the similarities in their views are uncanny, like Michael Gove Keith
Joseph was also intransigent.

Keith Joseph was brilliantly summed up on interview with "TONY WILSON"
as "THE MAD MONK" I fear Michael Gove might be the same.

pointythings Fri 11-Oct-13 18:26:46

carol sweeping statement much? Not one of my DDs' children like the changes (though they do agree there needs to be change) and they are by no means raving Unionised commies.

The teachers have tried to talk to Gove in a reasoned way and been rebuffed, called names and ignored. Are you surprised that they have now stopped trying? I'm not.

So far, every one of Michael Gove's grand initiatives has resulted in climbdowns and major modifications, as well as criticism from real experts - for example, Cambridge University's objections to downgrading AS levels. Someone who is told they are wrong so many times needs to learn from that and Michael Gove is refusing to do so.

caroldecker Fri 11-Oct-13 18:06:31

Why oh why cant some moderate teachers or sensible union leaders get round a table and discuss like sensible educated adults

Because moderate teachers like the changes and sensible union leaders do not exist

pointythings Fri 11-Oct-13 17:58:50

The problem with Michael Gove is that he was born in poverty and then adopted by a wealthy family, who gave him the sort of 1950s very traditional private school education that was the norm then. It worked very well for him - I agree that he is an intelligent man - and it also worked well for a lot of his contemporaries. However, he and his people are a selective and not very representative sample of the population as a whole, and there is also the fact that we know a lot more now about what teaching methods work and which do not. Note that I am not talking about 'trendy teaching methods' here, I'm talking about evidence based stuff which is practised in many countries that perform better in education than the UK.

Michael Gove is convinced that what worked for him is the only way for education to work. He won't listen to anything that contradicts the success of his own experience. It's a huge blind spot. Then there's his lamentable lack of understanding of statistics as evidenced by RustyBear above - this is on the record, it isn't gossip! - and you can see how many of us might have concerns about his fitness to run education.

BoneyBackJefferson Fri 11-Oct-13 17:58:25

"Why oh why cant some moderate teachers or sensible union leaders get round a table and discuss like sensible educated adults."

Because gove refuses to converse with teachers or their union reps.

soul2000 Fri 11-Oct-13 17:32:55

I really want to understand why he cant just sit down and listen. Sorry

soul2000 Fri 11-Oct-13 17:22:24

This a genuine question i want to ask.

Where has Micheal Gove got all these stupid ideas from, he is obviously a very articulate and bright man. He says he wants education to be better for everybody so why will he not listen to anybody.

I don't want to hear silly answers like he is a"TORY" so he wants to destroy education. He really want to understand why he just cant sit down and hear some constructive views in improving education.

I am sure that not every thing Gove says is "SHIT" and i am sure he is not
"EVIL" so why cant he just sit and listen to people with years of experience
who in the whole would like to improve education.

Christine blower though does teaching or teachers no favors though with
her socialist workers party stance.

Why oh why cant some moderate teachers or sensible union leaders get round a table and discuss like sensible educated adults.

This whole episode makes me sick it really does. The nonsense Micheal Gove is proposing is not going to improve our position in the international league tables is it.

SuffolkNWhat Fri 11-Oct-13 14:20:00

For the first time in my ten years of teaching I am seriously considering alternatives now, I bloody love being in the classroom but all the shifting and changing is enough to make anyone reconsider teaching. Plus my subject isn't even covered by the NC so our messing with is minimal compared to core subjects.

EricNorthmansFangbanger Fri 11-Oct-13 11:46:29

*Twunt. Bloody autocorrect blush angry

EricNorthmansFangbanger Fri 11-Oct-13 11:45:26

Gove is a taunt. Hth.

bronya Fri 11-Oct-13 06:34:35

And don't even get me started on how bad Gove's maths is regarding the 'all schools must be better than average' thing. Most PRIMARY school pupils (Y5/6) could tell him that's not mathematically possible!

bronya Fri 11-Oct-13 06:32:54

If things continue as they are, there will be a huge shortage of experienced teachers (who will leave), and anyone with any chance of earning a decent salary elsewhere, will not go into the job. In the future, that will lead to a lack of decent headteachers/SLT also. Many, many teachers who are young enough to do something else, or already have other skills, are already leaving. Not because they're bad teachers, either. Our education system is going to get worse, not better.

junkfoodaddict Thu 10-Oct-13 21:53:58

Yep Rusty spot on. I don't think many people actually realise this.

AntlersInAllOfMyDecorating Thu 10-Oct-13 21:52:17

I have a first in a core subject, a masters and I have worked with young people in some capacity for years. I left the state sector for the private and don't regret it.

Gove changes the goalposts even as he moves them. Look at any department staffroom to see all the "initiatives" that have been announced with fanfare over the years and then regulated to the shelf of other folders already gathering dust. There's been ECM, APP, the plenary, the mini-plenary...

And this idea that everything should be rapid and fast paced and fun? No. I am not there to make learning enjoyable - I am there to teach and equip them - in life they will have to do long, extended tasks that need concentration, as well as the smaller 'fun' ones. This progress every 20 minutes is ridiculous! A good teacher knows where their class is without making it so artificial...

Learning by rote is disastrous - our child need skills of independent thinking, contextual application, engagement with current affairs and controversial What use is learning the sonnets by heart if they haven't felt them? That's what I find more worrying - young people, so media literate, yet so often disengaged with the world.

Please can we just focus on what is important?

junkfoodaddict Thu 10-Oct-13 21:49:01

I hate Gove. He's done nothing but rant, blames and hates the very people he is supposed to be working WITH! He has absolutely no experience in education except receiving one during his childhood and he is destroying everything about it.

Thousands of teachers are voters and the Conservatives will have lost thousands of them - me being one.

I voted Conservatives in the last election - mainly because I had had enough of the benefit culture Labour was breading but I will admit, my life was certainly BETTER under Labour. Gove has made my worklife worse which has had a negative effect on my family life. I have very little time for my husband and little boy and if he gets his way, even LESS time!

He distrusts teachers, belittles them, blames them for everything that is wrong with education (despite teachers having no control over education and having goalposts and initiatives changed or moved EVERY year by government policies and OFSTED) and wants to make our working conditions WORSE! Since graduating in 2000, I think I have kept track, but OFSTED have changed their goalposts FOUR TIMES! How the hell can teachers and school keep up with the ever changing policies? If they can't get it right, how the hell can we????????????

Never have I hated a government minister so much.

YoureAllABunchOfBastards Thu 10-Oct-13 21:40:20

I was going to post what RustyBear has posted.

I would like to teach children what they need to know. I can't, because I have to teach them to the syllabus, which in some cases has fuck all relevance. Gove's new plans bear even less resemblance to anything fucking useful.

I could cheerfully punch him. As could most of my Y10s and Y11s

pointythings Thu 10-Oct-13 20:53:29

RustyBear

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at this. And people actually believe this man is a good SOS for Education?

pointythings Thu 10-Oct-13 20:49:36

It's a tricky question, chicaguapa - petitions would be a start, but what we really need is a change in our electoral system. Until we move away from what is basically a two-party system where no other parties ever get a look in because of first past the post, we stand no chance. We need a situation where politicians don't have an incentive to undo their predecessors' work just for the hell of it.

chicaguapa Thu 10-Oct-13 20:43:44

pointy I mean, how do we actually get it done? Petition, unions, media, how? Because I absolutely agree that education is not ideological and shouldn't be politically motivated. It has to be made to happen, so I was wondering how we do it. How do we get the political parties to agree to this?

<feels empowered but needs direction>

RustyBear Thu 10-Oct-13 20:41:27

"Q98 Chair: One is: if "good" requires pupil performance to exceed the national average, and if all schools must be good, how is this mathematically possible?

Michael Gove: By getting better all the time.

Q99 Chair: So it is possible, is it?

Michael Gove: It is possible to get better all the time.

Q100 Chair: Were you better at literacy than numeracy, Secretary of State?

Michael Gove: I cannot remember."

From:
www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmeduc/uc1786-i/uc178601.htm

thecatfromjapan Thu 10-Oct-13 20:35:02

Why is there anything wrong with multiple resits? Surely it makes sense that children can have an off day and so should have a couple of chances to show what they can do? I can think of very few examples in adult life where, for something genuinely important, you only get one chance to get it right. Thinking about it - it would be daft to live lives like that.

The mania for the supposed "authenticity" of a "one chance only" exam is, frankly, bewildering. And completely artificial, as far as I can see.

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