ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
about the feminism/WR area?(344 Posts)
MNHQ have commented on this thread.
I don't like dogs, and I think most television is irredeemably stupid drivel and that there's no excuse for anyone with an actual life of their own to watch 'Made in Chelsea', and although I like knitting I don't really get the point of scrap-booking. Those are my opinions, and I'm entitled to hold them, and I would construct arguments to support them if pushed, but I don't go onto the TV thread and find people who like 'Made in Chelsea' and then go on about how wrong they are and when they get angry keep saying 'you just can't take it that other people don't share your opinions' until they get bored and give up on the thread altogether.
And I've got all the kids I want, thank you very much, so I'm not TTC, and I was lucky to conceive my kids in a very straightforward manner, so I don't actually know anything about how it feels not to, and I don't have any useful advice or insights for those who are TTC, and I don't have any medical expertise about TTC, so I've set my MN preferences not to display those threads.
So why is it that people who clearly have no interest in feminism or women's rights, and no knowledge of the often complex political, social and personal ideas being explored, and don't actually hope to learn anything or contribute anything of any value, hang around that area spoiling for a fight? Because there's a whole section of MN dedicated to expressing your opinions. It's this one. There's a question mark in the title and everything.
I thin YABU. Just because their opinion differs, doesn't mean they're not interested. If they're just trolling, or just if you think they are, ignoring them is easy.
I like to think people who have no interest in feminism gravitate to the WR boards because they know deep down feminists are far from the Po- faced harridans of popular imagination and instead intellectual funsters and they want to get in with us.
But there's a difference between their opinion differing on the specifics of an issue, and their different opinion being that feminism itself as a concept and a movement is fundamentally problematic. In the same way, if my opinion is that domestic dogs are actually a blight on decent society, even though there are some individual dogs I'm reasonably tolerant of and despite the fact that several of my close friends and family members own and love dogs, then I don't really have anything to contribute to individual threads about the ins and outs of dog ownership. So I stay away.
But, I want to get in with you because I know you to be intellectual funsters and I'm a dyed in the wool lifetime feminist, and yet I rarely engage with that area of MN because the frequent derailment and trivialising is so successful, and because I'm not a great online arguer.
Vivacia, you obviously have no idea of how often the FWR threads are derailed by people there just to tell posters that they shouldn't be trying to say anything about feminism.
It's close to 100% of threads have someone come on and stand up for men or tel regular posters they have no sense of humor etc.
Because there are no thread police.
Your choices on which topics to use are just that - yours. Other people may make different ones.
There is nothing special at all about FWR (as thrashed out exhaustively, many, many times). It's just another MN forum. And, like all the others, a variety of people post a variety of things there.
People can post what they like, where they like. The only 'rules' are the talk guidelines - and potential breaches should be reported.
Oh, and I do know what it's like in FWR.
I was accused of being an MRA.
And I've seen loads and loads of threads in all sorts of forums being derailed. FWR is, I suppose, unique in the number of threads about it as a forum, and attempts to have a unique level of thread policing. Pity.
Because some people are deeply, deeply threatened by feminism. Deeply threatened by it.
There is, literally, no other explanation for it.
I don't go in there anywhere as much as I used to, purely because of the trolls. It's unfortunate, as they appear to be 'winning'.
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I'm sorry if I sound smug, Tee2072; I'm not suggesting that I'm unusual in not posting on the threads where my thoughts are irrelevant. I think most of us don't, because it would be weird and pointless and a waste of everybody's time, including our own. What I'm wondering about is why the FWR boards seem to be an exception to that? Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the Furry Friends threads are in fact full of people posting recipes for guinea pig delicacies or banging on about the immorality of using exploiting as household pets.
Can I have a gold star though? Can I?
Should say 'of exploiting animals as household pets'.
No. I've changed my mind. No gold star for you!
I think the reason that people go to FWR and do that is because they know it winds you up. You give them the exact reaction they expect.
So here's an idea...stop reacting. Ignore the naysayers, the non-debaters and the derailers and just have your conversations around them.
You would not have been unreasonable had you merely presented this thread as "aibu to be annoyed every fwr thread gets derailed by general haters of feminism?"
However by intimating that the rest of mn is about tv and flipping knitting and puppies, and that people should not have opinions if they are not as educated in the complex background of fwm you became unreasonable and frankly the po faced harriden they seem to be accusing you of being.
I am not an"active" researcher of feminism but actually as someone with a high level career, a business and being the main breadwinner I fight for equality by living my life instead, therefore reserve the right to comment.
kickassangel you may think I must be unfamiliar because I don't share your view. You are wrong; I am familiar.
I agree there is a problem. I disagree over the solution.
Oh and as tee said they can only derail if you let them. Ignore them like a toddler until they go away.
Bit worried that you can get beaten down so easily, Emily Pankhurst would be horrified
The problem is that it is part of a parenting site and pops up on "active", "thread of the day" etc. some of the views expressed in that area are pretty objectionable to many. A Jewish person, for example, may not be politically interested, for instance, but if he saw a thread posted in politics concerning Jewish " privilege" and making all sorts of racist assumptions as if they were facts, I suspect he may want to post on that thread and, IMO, he would have every right to.
People troll everywhere. There was even a sick fucker a few weeks ago in Bereavement. They do it to get a rise.
(I mean the ones who do it persistently, not people who pop in for a quick chat or see the thread on Active. Nice not-quite-Godwin-but-darn-you're-trying there, larry, btw. Feminists, totally the same thing as people being racist. Yup. Unless perhaps you intended to imply MRAs are like racists and you and other non-feminists nobly dash in to defend the maidenly honour of the regulars?)
"It's close to 100% of threads have someone come on and stand up for men or tel regular posters they have no sense of humor etc."
Is there a reason they shouldn't stand up for men? Or are you implying you can't be a feminist if you think men are people too, with rights and everything?
You're actually not helping here. You're making it worse.
I think you need to draw the line between trolls and people who disagree with you.
Trolls pop up everywhere. They need to be ignored. They do it to get a reaction.
People who disagree with you probably also pop up everywhere and there is room for lots of different opinions on lots of different things, within feminism or on the "furry friends" threads. I am sure there are some heated debates on there about whether gerbils thrive best on "Organic Gerbil YumYum" or "Dr Bob's Gerbil Stew" (or something).
Aside from that, if there was a (for example) Socialism forum, I would expect lots of people who thought Socialism was wrong to go on there and make their views heard. Not "spoiling for a fight" but wanting to engage on a subject you have a strong view about. And that again, is different from trolling IMO.
You can't have a feminist section where people are not allowed to go on unless they agree with a) feminism and b) whatever you think on a certain topic. As long as the stay within talk guidelines, people are entitled to post any opinion or view they wish. I have no doubt people who think dogs should not exist / be kept as pets pop up on the dog threads, and, as long as they stay within talk guidelines, why should they not be free to air their views? There would be little point them posting about their views on the Recipes forums.
Finally, implying that the FWR forums are really intellectual, require a special level of knowledge, are superior to the other forums, contributions must be full of value and learning comes across as rather pious and exclusive.
So for those reasons, YABU.
Feminists are not racists. However some feminists use the concept of male privilege to espouse some pretty vile anti male views in exactly the same way as some anti Semites use Jewish "conspiracy" or "privilege" to excuse some pretty vile racism.
People do exactly what you describe in other forums.
Plenty of people come The Doghouse, in to say dogs are a blight in society and should all be put down. And frankly, I lost count of the amount of timed I've been called a shot mother mother because I own a dog.
I've also been flamed for being passionate about animal welfare.
A lot of people, myself includes use active convs and post according to the thread, not the topic.
If you suspect a poster is purposefully posting in the FWR boards only to wind up because its in that topic, report them.
If that posters opinion would remain the same on such a thread regardless if which board it was posted in, than accept that poster I'd is a twat.
Also there are some posters who are goady for the sake of it. Keep reporting them and HQ will sort it.
However. UABU as the tone of your thread gives a very different impression of the FWR boards than what they are. And not in in a good way.
YABU. A better analogy is a few dogs (like you) thinking that they own the dog thread, and that other dogs shouldn't be allowed to post on it if they don't have the exact same ideas on all subjects discussed.
Women wanting to post on threads about women's rights is perfectly normal.
I really need to sort my keyboard out
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