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To tell dd she can't go on school trip

(56 Posts)
EvaBeaversProtege Fri 20-Sep-13 08:16:04

Dd (11) has already been on one residential this term. It was a class bonding trip as she has just started yr8 in a new school.

We had to pay £30 for the trip, even though it was labelled a 'residential' they didn't stay overnight, we're home by 4pm.

She came home last week, said she'd joined a sports team & as part of the bonding they had been asked on a residential. Same place, same cost, just with different people.

At that time I told her if she wanted to go she would have to do mOre chores in the house to earn the cost as we've been paying money left, right and centre for the last three weeks.

She agreed.

Day one, no chores, too much homework.
Day two, only one (unload dishwasher) and she didn't put the dishes away
Day three, again, too much homework hmm yet when I enter the study she's glued to YouTube.

Anyway, in my mind she didn't keep her end of the bargain, but yesterday it all hit the fan.

She has a mental block re: maths. Says she can't do it, hates it, her maths teacher 'hates her' and gets her name wrong all the time (have said teacher has so many new names to learn, cut her some slack)

But it's no coincidence that DH is amazing at maths, part of his job etc... So yesterday when dd was saying "daddy you'll have to do my maths for me, I font understand it" I said l

kelda Fri 20-Sep-13 08:45:53

If she has jsut started secondary school, that is a big change for her. I'm sure she is getting more homework and also different homework.

Maybe she did find maths easy in primary but what she is doing now is probably very different.

I wouldn't ahve asked her to do chores at this time. I think she needs to settle into school first, get used to the new work and concentrate on homework. And any time left over, she needs to relax.

Either you can afford to pay for the trip, or you can't. I wouldn't make it conditional on anything this time.

mynewpassion Fri 20-Sep-13 08:46:50

Were you clear on what "more chores" mean?

Crowler Fri 20-Sep-13 08:51:28

I don't agree with making her earn this trip, unless out of financial necessity. It's part of the school day - it's not like (for example) a ski trip.

That being said, I would be battening down the hatches. She should not be telling you to shut up at 13 - imagine what that looks like at 16.

diddl Fri 20-Sep-13 08:56:15

I don't agree with her earning the trip either tbh.

You've either got the money or not!

How does her doing chores make money??

Let her dad help her with maths!

We were never asked to do chores above homework-& my teens still aren't tbh.

Disconnect the telly in the study??

But I agree that she spoke to you appallingly & there would be sanctions for that.

FrauMoose Fri 20-Sep-13 08:58:43

If children are normally quite able at a subject, it can really throw them when they don't understand. (This could be about a new teacher, a new syllabus, or simply a different topic that require a whole new set of skills.)

Your daughter sounds unhappy. It is very trying when unhappiness comes across as challenging behaviour. My approach is simultaneously to say that particular words or actions aren't acceptable, but that it's understandable to feel frustrated. I think it is a lot easier to sort out and minimise difficult behaviour if the child feels you are on their side. Can they explain why maths has become difficult. Perhaps after your partner has helped her, he will have some insight into this?

How is she getting on at the new school? Why did she change 1 year after the upheaval of transferring from primary to secondary, and is she able to keep in touch with friends from her old school? Has the whole family moved because of work etc?

And you sound worried about money. Schools should be open to parents paying by instalments - and should be willing to discuss how trips are costed, and why they think they benefit the children's learning. Usually the phrase 'voluntary contribution' is used.

I've sometimes told my daughter that I'll pay for a particular trip, but that it will mean there is less for other treats/non-essentials.

geekgal Fri 20-Sep-13 09:01:03

Maybe my husband and I are from a different planet or something but chores should be done regardless of time of year, time of month, or to earn something or nothing! 11 is plenty old enough to have daily chores, and if you have to pay extra for a day trip it's not a regular part of her schooling so it's not a necessity. I was brought up in the US, lots of kids had actual paying jobs at age 11, and they still had chores at home, maybe that's why they rule the world...

ivykaty44 Fri 20-Sep-13 09:03:35

When I told her she wasn't going on trip she asked if she still had to do the chores!!!

you are being outsmarted by an 11 year old

your dd is smart and you want her to do well, you set some rules about if you go on the trip you have to do chores, you then changed the rules and made it homework as well.

it is fine to set rules, but think about the rules before you set them - will they work, liek your dd has worked out, now the chores don't have to be done as she is not going on the trip

don't change the rules half way through the process - it is just unfair and means that the rules are not real rules at all as your dd still may not get to go if she follows the rules as the rules may change

if your dd went on a trip last week and it is to much money to spend on a trip this week, then say so and say you can't do both.

Actions do have consequences, if you don't do your homework you get a detention. One chore one action. You have given several actions and frankly to many for one very big carrot and at this age it is far to much carrot for to many actions and it has failed miserably

ivykaty44 Fri 20-Sep-13 09:10:13

geekgal - in the UK it is hard to get a job until you are 16 due to insurance, shops etc will not and are not allowed to employee people if they are not insured to work as it is against the law.

daftdame Fri 20-Sep-13 09:24:23

On another note if you want to test how genuine her difficulty with homework is, if you really think she is wrapping her Dad round her little finger, why not offer to go in and see her maths teacher with her to get to the bottom of the issue?

In any case if her dad cannot help ie show her how to do the work, not do it for her, you will have to do this anyway.

geekgal Fri 20-Sep-13 09:26:22

I'm aware of that but chores are set by parents, not employers - it just generally makes for a better work ethic later in life, most kids I know who had them didn't have such a nasty shock when they left home as to what it all entailed! I truly believe chores are as important as school, it teaches you how to look after yourself, schedule tasks, the importance of cleanliness, even managing budgets when they get older and you task them with doing the weekly shop! I had to do chores, I didn't get any rewards for it, it was just something that I had to do, I want to make sure my kids realise that too.

But this is about the OP, and I think you're right that she needs to decide what she should be doing first and then try to stick with it, it means there is less chance of any kind of backlash from a stroppy preteen who is clever enough to pick holes smile

SanityClause Fri 20-Sep-13 09:29:55

IMO, household chores are things we all have to do. they are jobs the household needs done to allow it to run smoothly. So, they shouldn't be used to "earn" things.

WRT the trip, it doesn't seem to make sense that she gets it by doing work. What money is saved by her doing household chores that would free it up to do the trip?

Or is what you are saying "If you take it less for granted that I will do all the household chores, I will feel much more likely to want to put my hand in pocket to provide you with extras like school trips."

In which case, say it! Let her know her actions have consequences. She wants to sit watching YouTube, rather than doing a few household chores? Fine, but you will be less likely to want to fund school trips, if she's already had the evening off to watch YouTube, while you were scurrying around loading the dishwasher.

As regards the maths, I think it is lovely at your DH can and will help her. Thats what parents do. But perhaps you need to talk to him about making sure he shows her, but leaves her to do the work, if you are concerned that he will just do it all for her.

Yesterday, DS told me he had 12 really hard maths questions. We looked at the first one. He realised that he did understand how to do it, and that the rest were all the same. We discussed it for a bit, then he got down to them and finished them in no time.

Crowler Fri 20-Sep-13 09:31:15

I totally agree geekgal. I am guilty of not imposing many chores on mine, because they do a horrible job.

Apart from emptying the dishwasher, I find it hard to find jobs they're capable of.

kali110 Fri 20-Sep-13 09:34:10

Yanbu. You know your dd best.you told her she had to do chores. She didnt. She didnt do her homework(maybe she was struggling,) but youve pointed out that you feel she may have been trying to get your dh to do it.
Get the feeling she knew she was in the wrong and threw a tantrum..
After screaming in your face i def would say no trip thats completely unacceptable. There will allways be trips, but agree she needs to know there are consequences of her actions..

kali110 Fri 20-Sep-13 09:38:20

Plus i dont see anything wrong with doing chores in return to go on a trip. She'll learn she has to work for things she wants.
Btw out of interest is it that hard now for a 16 to get a job?i got one as soon as i turned 16 .

Sirzy Fri 20-Sep-13 09:40:24

'chores' should be a general part of being a member of the household though not in return for being able to go on a school trip. Children need to learn (IMO) that the jobs need doing so you do them not you only do it if there is something in return.

wigglesrock Fri 20-Sep-13 09:44:10

I don't think YABU. This particular trip isn't part of the regular school day - it's an additional trip linked to a school sports team. Additional trips = having to be earned.

She should be doing jobs around the house anyway. Fwiw I was terrible at maths, I never got it, it was always a struggle for me. My dad's really good at it, he used to do my homework with me on a seperate piece of paper, talk me through it, take the paper, bin it and then I had to do the homework in my book (no computers in my day smile ).

I have a lot of sympathy for your dd re the maths, but not about shouting shut up.

whatever5 Fri 20-Sep-13 09:45:08

If she is 11, isn't she in year 7, not year 8? Has she just started secondary school? I think that you're being far too harsh. Starting a new school is stressful and being in a new environment is tiring. Adding chores during the week on top of homework at this stage is unreasonable full stop IMO.

Your DH shouldn't be "doing" her maths for her but it would certainly be a good idea to help her understand it better. I can't understand why you would stop him doing that. You're not doing her any favours.

daftdame Fri 20-Sep-13 09:45:58

geekgirl I actually found it easier when I left home. No nasty shocks, parents arguing over the standard of washing up / cleaning the my room or kitchen. No telling me to do stuff when I needed to study.

I lived in student accommodation and standards could get quite low grin. We all managed though and no one got ill through it.

daftdame Fri 20-Sep-13 09:47:22

Ditto cooking. Liked the food much better actually.

geekgal Fri 20-Sep-13 10:43:11

Yeah, my youthful cleaning skills were pretty shoddy initially, especially when I wanted to get it done quickly so I could go and listen to tapes in my bedroom (wow am I old!)!! grin

ivykaty44 Fri 20-Sep-13 10:47:27

geek I was brought up in the US, lots of kids had actual paying jobs at age 11, and they still had chores at home,

I was just explaining that paid work for children is not something you can do in the UK due to regulations

geekgal Fri 20-Sep-13 11:57:19

That's true, ivykaty, I was more using it for emphasis, most kids I knew in the states didn't get their first jobs until they were 14 or 15 - I just lived for a while in farming country so you could get paid work mucking out much younger than that. You could even drive at age 10 so long as it was only a tractor!

FredFredGeorge Fri 20-Sep-13 12:04:37

You told your DD that she couldn't ask her father for help with her maths homework? YABU.

PresidentServalan Fri 20-Sep-13 12:12:42

I would definitely stop her from going - you made an agreement and not only has she not bothered to do her part but she shouted at you??? No way should she go!

Saffyz Fri 20-Sep-13 13:09:24

Maths is important, but I understand the problem of not being able to learn if you really don't get on with the teacher. Could you say she can go on the school trip, as long as she agrees to have some sit-down maths tuition from your DH?

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