Am I being unreasonable to confront this woman?

(582 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

justanuthermanicmumsday Thu 19-Sep-13 01:33:00

for those of you who don't know I wear a face veil usually a patterned scarf to avoid sticking out so much lol. point is I expect the odd comments maybe groans as I work past in my honour of course.

But two times now this senior lady I'd say in her 60s or more unprovoked loudly made comments at me. The first time she said" why are you wearing that" I was walking past with my twin buggy to supermarket, I thght she was incredibly rude. Had she said excuse me and proceeded to ask me a question in a normal tone I wouldn't have been miffed. Still I kept my cool said religious reasons as I walked away. I didn't want a conversation I don't see why I should explain when she was so rude.

yet today I see her again shouting across the road at me this time." No need to wear that take it off". Today I would say she looked aggressive or perhaps it was my eyes deceiving me. My toddler was with me she looked distressed said" mummy whys that lady shouting". I said "she's prob ill like your gran never mind her."

Should I confront her if this happens again? I'm not an aggressive person quite a walkover and not much confidence but I think it can't be ignored its like harassment.

I dread to think ill pass her again if I pop out she's always on the same route as me, yet why should I dread her.

Granted she doesn't like my dress neither does my brother, I'm not harming her in anyway. one sibling said I shouldn't confront her in case she goes to the police. But that's insane what reason would she have to go to the police i would simply tell her to get off my case. How would she like it if I told her to change her dress for something more acceptable to me. She's not the fashion police or the law.

Please remember this is not a conversation on whether you approve of my dress rather this woman's behaviour

I remember when I was much, much younger overhearing someone say, "well he shouldn't draw attention to himself if he doesn't want hassle". Sound familiar? They were talking about a bloke who got beaten up for daring to be openly gay. Silly him, should have kept it private and conformed in public right? hmm

AdventureTed Thu 19-Sep-13 23:08:39

Murder - of course they should. That was the point I was making. But you can talk lightheartedly about goths without being accused of gothophobia.

You can talk lightheartedly about Muslims too, if you are actually being lighthearted that is.

ukatlast Thu 19-Sep-13 23:10:38

Quangle 'This is not about clothes. This is about social interaction and identity.'

What Quangle and many others said. Yes the lady was rude but I also as a moderate feminist find it incomprehensible that you would want to wear a face veil.
Today's news item that the Government has tasked the GMC with deciding whether nursing/medical staff in NHS may be allowed to wear the face veil while working left me open-mouthed....when in Rome basically...no way is a medical person touching me when I can't see their facial expressions.

BlueSkySunnyDay Thu 19-Sep-13 23:11:38

Yes but murder you cant change other people, only how you react to them.

My reaction was always a big fuck you, square and in the case of men who said i'd be attractive if I changed x, y or z they never got a date, just some witty sharp put down if I could be bothered. I changed when I wanted to.

The op could report her...personally I cant be arsed to engaged with people like that, im pretty sure that 95% of people who see her shouting think "how rude"

No, we can change other people. It takes time, but we can.

How acceptable is it to attack people for being gay nowadays? Not very. Should they have just not bothered and changed themselves instead?

AdventureTed Thu 19-Sep-13 23:14:54

Murder - sorry, our posts crossed. A lot of people avoid sensitive subjects because they are afraid of being misinterpreted.

Well that's their choice really isn't it?

BlueSkySunnyDay Thu 19-Sep-13 23:16:34

Fine then murder how does she deal with this?

The OP can only ignore it, but as a society we should be saying it's not on.

Gah, hit post too soon. The woman yelling at the OP strikes me as a little bit dangerous, given that the OP has tried to talk to her and got more abuse. For the OP's safety she's best off ignoring.

But she also shouldn't feel that she cannot wear what she wants, and shouldn't feel that her choices are "suck it up" or conform.

BlueSkySunnyDay Thu 19-Sep-13 23:27:07

I will have issues with any religion which tries to change society as a whole....whatever that religion may be.

A muslim girl f*cked up my honeymoon as she gave me an alternative to what was prescribed to control my horrendous periods. What was prescribed was "against her beliefs" - she actually questioned me about my reasons for taking it in a busy chemists. Her alternative didn't work hmm

Belive in any god you want but he needs to stay the f*ck out of my life.

And the OP wearing a veil is affecting your life..?

BlingBang Thu 19-Sep-13 23:27:52

Interesting reading. Why are people laying the blame at the Op's feet? It's hardly rocket science. If someone is walking down the street minding their own business and breaking no laws ( especially a woman with her kids) - surely it is never acceptable to shout abuse at them. Sheesh, just think how that sounds. Just suck it up for being different to not conforming to what someone thanks is acceptable.

FreudiansSlipper Thu 19-Sep-13 23:30:20

maybe it was against her professional beliefs not her religious beliefs

BlueSkySunnyDay Thu 19-Sep-13 23:34:08

Didn't say it did I reserve judgement over whether in decades to come this intolerant form of a generally tolerant religion will have repercussions for this country.

In fact I said the old lady was in the wrong. Don't know how she deals with it - where i'm from "sucking it up" and "ignoring" are the same thing, take the higher moral ground and let this woman show herself up - even someone like me who is massively anti religion does not think abusing people in the street because someone feels differently is acceptable.

BlueSkySunnyDay Thu 19-Sep-13 23:35:12

No she was quite clear, her reasons were religious - in retrospect I should have complained.

BlueSkySunnyDay Thu 19-Sep-13 23:36:36

she wanted to know if I were prescribed it for "contraceptive purposes"

StuntGirl Thu 19-Sep-13 23:41:54

Pharmacists can opt out of giving certain medications (essentially contraception) if it's against their religious beliefs. They do have to tell you where the nearest place that will serve you is though. Devout Chrstians are just as likely as Muslims to do it. I think it's a joke personally but whatev.

OlympicSleepingChampion Thu 19-Sep-13 23:42:24

The woman was rude OP, no question. But I must admit that seeing veiled women makes me very uncomfortable in this day and age. As it does seeing Muslim families out and about on hot summer days where the DW is swathed in black down to her feet with matching hijab and the DH is wearing shorts and a vest top. I just don't get it and I honestly don't get why a man would think that was ok or fair. That said I don't like seeing half naked women in skimpy clothes either or blokes walking round bare chested. Although I respect that everyone had the right to dress as they see fit something just doesn't sit right with me about women having to cover themselves so drastically.

It may have something to do with a former colleague of mine who was a very religious and devout Muslim. A nicer man you could not meet. We used to discuss religion - and all sorts of other stuff - on long journeys to meetings. He did not like the veil - niqab? - whatsoever as he felt that it was offensive to him as a Muslim man and unfair to women. The inference being that he could not be trusted to look upon a woman's face without lusting after her and acting improperly. He was also fairly angry when his wife, who was a TA at a predominantly Muslim primary school, was asked to wear a hijab by a group of pupil's families. He felt that it was between her and God as to whether she wore it. He as a husband could not insist on it and in no way could anybody else.

FreudiansSlipper Thu 19-Sep-13 23:49:45

but contraception is not banned in Islam quite the opposite sex is to be enjoyed within marriage

maybe the muslim girl had her own agenda

BlueSkySunnyDay Thu 19-Sep-13 23:50:10

Stunt girl - I think its completely wrong, either do the job entirely or bog off and let someone who will do it properly have the job - i'd create WAY more of a fuss about it now, particularly the fact that she had what was a very personal conversation out in public in front of a queue of people. Unprofessional in the extreme.

As Olympic said the disparity between a woman dressed "modestly" and the man in western style rankles - id hate to think how I would feel if I were actually a feminist

BlueSkySunnyDay Thu 19-Sep-13 23:54:22

Don't know Freudian, I had assumed it was frowned upon and I know other people have had the same experience. Who knows what her agenda was, completely f'd up a very expensive holiday though.

StuntGirl Thu 19-Sep-13 23:58:29

I agree entirely blue, I have family who are pharmacists but luckily they are professional enough to realise their personal opinions come second to doing their job. I personally don't think it should be allowed.

Theoretically they just point you in the direction of the next nearest pharmacy. But it could be possible for ALL the pharmacists nearby to have opted out. What then?

BlingBang Thu 19-Sep-13 23:59:00

TBH, I'm totally conflicted on Muslim dress choices. The more severe covering up does seem to be more recent and on the increase. i'd think some women are experimenting with their faith and trying it out, some are saying a big fuck you to the west and the islamophobia (sp?) since 9/11 etc, some are converts who have to be more Islamic and political to prove their faith. For some it is what they are used to culturally and comfortable with. Obviously, I could never agree with women being forced to dress like this.

Then I think, why not - am I the only one that thanks it might actually be quite liberating to be a woman in public and not be judged for your beauty, your hair, your make-up, your fashion sense, your age. Maybe we should all try it. I have actually worked where everyone was completely covered from head to foot with hoods and masks - only a slit really for eyes. We had no problems communicating and it did feel equalising and liberating.

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