to think if you can't control a primary school class without constantly bellowing you are not cut out to be a teacher?

[blobfish]

I gave up volunteering at DD's school because I was fed up of the teachers constantly shouting at the generally well-behaved kids. Not all the teachers, there were a couple of good ones who knew how to engage children and keep the classroom calm.

DD has been back at school a couple of weeks and is already worn down by the shouty teacher she's been lumbered with.

We're not a "delicate" family so she's not being a wimp, just fed up of trying her hardest but having to listen to her teacher bellow at the kids because she clearly has poor behaviour management skills.

AIBU to think shouty teachers should find another career?

[primroseyellow]

YANBU

[SuperStrength]

or change schools. It suggests poor leadership & poor staff mangement

[blobfish]

but if they changed schools, wouldn't they just be bellowing at a different set of pupils?

[SilverApples]

Most of the teachers are shouty?
Sounds like a school with very poor behaviour management strategies and policies. I'd be considering asking why, and what they are doing to improve it.
What was BM like on their last OFSTED?
Have you considered moving your DD?

[mrspremise]

Shrieking teachers are worse; I worse in a school and there's a senior teacher there who is always shrieking at the children

[MatchsticksForMyEyes]

Yes, YANBU. I am secondary trained, but teach French to primary school children too and find the quickest way to stop children from talking is to stand silently with my hand up. Once one or two notice, it's like a domino effect. It is not necessary to shout all the time.

[autumnflames]

I think YABU, for several reasons.

Firstly, children seem to have a remarkable sensitivity to noise these days. I have been teaching for ten years and in that time, the number of children who pull faces and clap their hands over their ears with anguished expressions because a teacher raises their voice to make a point has really gone up. I don't shout, but I do speak sharply on occasion or more often raise my voice to be heard over a noisy class. There's always ONE who does what I described above, coupled with a pained plea, "stop SHOUTING, miss," when you're not!

Secondly, it isn't as simple as having good or bad behaviour management skills: we have precious few sanctions in schools as it is. Shouting, while not ideal, does at least convey an immediate sense of "this is serious, stop it."

Thirdly and most importantly - KIDS are very loud, and you sometimes have to shout over them to quieten them down in the first place. It's completely unfair to assume someone has poor behaviour management skills - new job - like all people, teachers need time to hone and sharpen their skills. I was "shoutier" when I started than now - plus, I now work in a lovely school where I don't need to shout as there is a clear and fair behaviour system. Not all schools have this - believe me I know!

[blobfish]

Their Ofsted was "good" in all aspects but I doubt they would have shouted in front of the inspectors and, as I say, the kids are pretty well-behaved. I have considered moving DD but we're in a rural area and nearby schools are full. Also, talking to friends with kids in other schools, shouty and shrieking teachers seem to be commonplace.

[Pozzled]

Agree with SuperStrength. Lots of shouty teachers suggests poor management and lack of support.

YANBU, though- it is very ineffective and should not be necessary. That said, I will confess to shouting at a class earlier this week. It was brief, unusual for me and I apologized- but we are all human, and we do make mistakes.

[RedHelenB]

As regards my throat I would much rather not shout tbh!

[Spinkle]

I think the pressure in teachers is immense these days. No doubt they shout, but probably not all day.

One if the reasons I left teaching was the noisy pupils.

[SybilRamkin]

I love how you say "the kids are pretty well behaved" - are you their teacher? Do you teach them 9-3 five days a week? I doubt it, so how would you know?

Also I'd take what your DD says with a pinch of salt, clearly if you stopped volunteering due to shouting she knows it's an issue for you, and could therefore be playing on your sympathies.

Teachers do genuinely need to shout, else they'd never get heard sometimes!

[Ineedmorepatience]

Autumnflames I really hope you are not my autisitc daughters teacher!

A child shouldnt need to cover their ears in anyones classroom. I am stunned you think that is ok!

I worked with an amazing teacher once who could silence the dining hall of an inner city primary with an egg shaker! It was amazing, if you believe you can quieten children without shouting... you can!

[Ineedmorepatience]

Autistic of course [sp]

[BlackeyedSusan]

yanbu, a low hiss a few inches from a child's nose is much more intimidating for the worst of worse offenders...

teachers need to have a stare that melts concrete...

and positive behavoiour strategies.

shouting rarely gets the desired results. I must have conveyed this concept in one look at ds's last teacher who said she had shouted at some of the reception children... I have never seen someone back track so swiftly... I have done supply in the inner city.

[Akray]

I think if a teacher is shouty, then they have lost control.

My DD1 has always been well behaved but in P6, she had a teacher that screamed from morning to night often reducing my DD1 to tears.

My DS who I admit is prone to chatting and not paying attention has a teacher who can silence him with just a look or a shake of the head.

I know which one I respect more........

[autumnflames]

Ineed - why? What did you read in my post that made you so afraid I was your autistic daughter's teacher?

When a rowdy lot of teenagers come in from break, I will shout over their din to sit down and calm down. Pause - and they do. Eventually :)

I'm hardly getting in children's faces and screaming

[intitgrand]

Surely they have to raise their voices to heard above the hubbub of 30 little childrens' 'hum of activity'. Do you not want them all to hear what the teacher says?

[autumnflames]

To add to that, I personally wouldn't want my space invaded like that BlackEyedSusan and nor would kids I don't think.

There is a world of difference between a short-lived roar at a rowdy class, and shrieking in a child's face, and it annoys me that because I have pointed this out I am clearly an unfit teacher.

Although to be honest I am seriously considering leaving and this is one of the reasons why - if someone posted a thread about a mother shouting no one would DARE smugly say "good thing she isn't my autistic daughter's mother" but as a teacher, you're fair game. No one ever thinks that kids' behaviour can be bloody awful and reduce anyone to tears, never mind shouting. It's always your fault! Sick of it!

[SilverApples]

I can project, but then I drop my voice level.
If I shout, it is a specific alert if something dangerous or unacceptable is going on, so that they stop until I get there and assess what's happening.
The problem with being shouty is also that 32 children can outshout one adult. After almost 30 years FT teaching, if I'd shouted every day I'd be completely mute by now.

[Blissx]

Ah, a week into term and we get one of the first teacher bashing treads. Quiet summer? MNetters you surpass yourselves.

[Retroformica]

We were taught on our PGCE that lots of shouting equals out of control. I agree with this.

[SilverApples]

autumnflames, one of the joys of supply work is being able to refuse to resturn to a school with very challenging children and no support from staff or SLT.
Some children are dreadful to try and teach, but shouting usually doesn't work on them.

[Retroformica]

My sons (fabulous) teachers do raise their voice sometimes and it's very effective because they don't do it constantly

[Ineedmorepatience]

Firstly, children seem to have a remarkable sensitivity to noise these days. I have been teaching for ten years and in that time, the number of children who pull faces and clap their hands over their ears with anguished expressions because a teacher raises their voice to make a point

That part autumn!