to be astonished that secondary kids can't do up a tie

(147 Posts)
SEmyarse Thu 05-Sep-13 21:05:23

Dd1 started secondary today. She has a muscle condition which means that her fingers (amongst other things) are very weak, and she also has very poor co-ordination.

She manages her condition so well in almost every way, and really hates attention being brought to it, so has been practicing doing a tie all summer. She would be mortified to have to ask a teacher to help at this age.

So imagine her surprise when having had PE today, at least 10 kids couldn't get their ties back on, and had to form a queue to get the teacher to help.

Now I get that they've not worn them before, and no-one learns anything instantly but a) why have the parents not taught them? b) why are the kids not concerned themselves that they'll be seen as babies? Someone must have put them on this morning, so they must have been aware they couldn't do them. This doesn't seem like the sort of stuff secondary teachers should have to do.

TheHorseHasBolted Tue 05-Aug-14 19:17:13

DH went to a private school and the rule was that everyone had to be able to tie a tie and shoelaces by their 7th birthday. I suppose there were not as many dyspraxic children in mainstream then. He never found out what happened if you failed this test as everybody did - they must have felt a lot of pressure to learn.

Girls didn't have to wear a tie at my school (although they could optionally, but my stingy parents wouldn't buy me one), but I belonged to the Red Cross so I learnt to tie a tie through that. I can still do it now, although I hope I never have to. I find ties and indeed suits a real turn-off on men - give me a scruff any day!

My kids had to wear ties at their second primary school, where we moved to when they were 6 and 7, but they did get the hang of it quite quickly. DS2 was very slow to learn to tie shoelaces, I'd say he was at least 8 before he could reliably tie a really secure bow, but what helped in the end was making sure that all his shoes were lace-ups so he literally had to practise every day. Before that, any time he wore sandals or anything like that for a few weeks, he seemed to unlearn the skill. Sadly, some time around year 8 he worked out that if he did his shoes up loosely he could just slip them on and off, the lazy sod.

Willyoulistentome Tue 05-Aug-14 19:12:54

My boys primary school had a tie in the winter uniform. Elasticated or a proper one whichever you preferred. We had both but mainly used the Elasticated.
I had started teaching them how to do the proper one. Ds1 can do it but it's still fairly rubbish and loose.
Ds2 however came downstairs one day aged about 7 with a perfectly tied Windsor knot. I asked him if DH had helped him and he looked at me as if I was mad.
" Nah. ... YouTube of course -duh!!".

Ilovenewts Tue 05-Aug-14 19:04:53

I can't tie a tie either. Never learned at school.

melissa83 Tue 05-Aug-14 19:04:53

I cant tie a tie and have had a job as an adult where I had to wear one every day for year and I just got my friend to tie it and just loosened it and tightened it daily.

brokenhearted55a Tue 05-Aug-14 19:02:19

My mum showed me about 50 times how to do it.

I just couldn't get the hang of it.

Issiey123 Tue 05-Aug-14 18:57:20

Im learning how 2 tie a tie cos i cant and it will be embarrassing

SunshineMMum Sun 08-Sep-13 10:45:07

YABU are you assuming that the other ten are neuro typical?
Even if they are they are having to do something for the first time, in a new school. DS has a clip on smile

MammaTJ Sun 08-Sep-13 09:48:41

The middle school uniform here requires a tie, so children learn how to do it at 9.

Well done for teaching your DD though.

Jenny70 Sun 08-Sep-13 09:17:11

All my DH's ties are kept tied... he loosens and slips over his head! But he doesn't need to wear one often -weddings & job interviews only!

LiegeAndLief Sun 08-Sep-13 09:02:41

Viking, we found dh's neck tie thing from Scouts recently still in its perfectly formed done-up-ness (for want of a better word) from 30 years ago. He had done the same with that!

TensionWheelsCoolHeels Sun 08-Sep-13 08:54:08

I think the material used now to make ties means its harder to tie them properly. I can remember sliding my tie into place, everything glided and it was easy to fiddle about to get the knot right, the fat end centred and the skinny bit not too long/short. My 8 yr old's tie is awful, no glide at all and even I find it a bugger to get right. I'm sure I've nearly strangled my DD trying to get it right! She can do it now, but its not easy like I had it 30+ yrs ago. grin

Dobbiesmum Sun 08-Sep-13 08:28:41

Viking Lady once per year if I could get away with it!
Tie it on the thin end, then cut the thick end short and tuck the rest down your shirt. Tuck the pointy end of the tie inside to make a straight edge (the rebels would but the thin end straight).
Each year had ways of customising their ties when I was at school, some got quite elaborate grin

MadeOfStarDust Sun 08-Sep-13 08:13:46

hahahaha - our PE teacher used to undo all our carefully slipped off ties whilst we were running round the field...

VikingLady Sat 07-Sep-13 22:57:32

But, but, but.... You only really need to tie your ties once per term, don't you?! We'd just loosen it and slip it over our head each time we took it off, then slip it back on and tighten it. Easy!

Actually, now I think about it, my school tie is probably still in its final knot some 17 years later grin

dogindisguise Sat 07-Sep-13 21:53:23

I have no idea how to tie a tie so I can't say how hard it is - but presumably if you have to wear one everyday it can't be too hard to get used to it. I never had to wear one for school and I think the only time I've worn one in my life is when I did a horse-riding show when I was about 11.

My children will have to wear ties when they're at school so I suppose I'll have to learn.

TigerseyeMum Sat 07-Sep-13 20:34:05

Why would a child need to feel ashamed of not knowing something they had never been taught?

Childhood and shame are two things that don't need to go together, imo.

theroseofwait Sat 07-Sep-13 16:25:19

YANBU. I like school ties and am pleased that more and more schools seem to be going back to them. Clip on ties are predominantly chosen, in my experience as a secondary teacher, because it stops some poor sod (like me when I was a Head of Year) spending half their working day working through groups of children saying 'do your top button up please' or 'I need to see five stripes on that tie please, otherwise it's too short. . '

Top buttons need to be done up to wear a clip on tie, the fact that they can't throttle each other with them is just a bonus! If some parents could teach their children the importance of looking smart and not encourage sloppy standards then you'd probably find that clip-ons died a death.

mrspremise Sat 07-Sep-13 16:13:36

My hubby still needs me to do his tie for him if we go somewhere naice... he never had to wear a school uniform and a suit and tie for his work would be wildly inappropriate. It pisses me off. Not as much though as the boy in year 6 at the school where I work who wants me to tie his shoelaces for him. Nearly every day. He's 11 angry My six year old son has been tying his own laces for ages.

DiseasesOfTheSheep Sat 07-Sep-13 15:49:56

Amber, I'd have been appalled to have to ask for help tying my tie at prep school too...

Clip on ties actually make me shudder. They are vile. I completely see there would be some advantage if a miscreant were to attempt to throttle you with a tie, but I'd rather target the bullying mentality within the school than cave in to the fear culture. Ideal world and all that, but I still think they're the thin end of the wedge!

AmberLeaf Sat 07-Sep-13 15:41:14

Diseases, so you'd been wearing one for years? That probably has a bearing somwhat?

AmberLeaf Sat 07-Sep-13 15:40:09

My boys learnt just before they went up to high school, no need to have known how before then.

I roughly know how to, but not ever having had to wear one I don't have the practice. My Dad and their Dad gave them tips on technique.

Lots of 'peanutting' of year 7s goes on.

DiseasesOfTheSheep Sat 07-Sep-13 15:39:30

I'm clearly a total knob 'cos I think it's unreasonable for any man not to be able to tie a bow tie, let alone a double windsor on a normal tie...

And anyone at a tie wearing secondary should be thoroughly ashamed to need help to get one back on - I would have been, but I'd been wearing ties for years hmm

I'm a closet tie snob blush

pointythings Sat 07-Sep-13 15:28:27

littlemog it's called strangulation. 'Proper' ties can be a weapon of violence in the hands of bullies. As for the rest of your comment - judgy pants fitting nicely, are they?

Dobbiesmum DD1 has managed her entire Yr7 without losing a clip on tie. She was a devil for losing PE kit though, fortunately it all came back.

Dobbiesmum Sat 07-Sep-13 09:48:57

Problem with clip on ties is that they get lost too bloody easily. DS went through 4 in year 7 (a clip on was obligatory for yr 7) before he gave up and went onto a yr 8 tie. The older kids did what is known as 'flipping', flipping the tie up and off as they walked past them in the corridors. Very easy to lose a tie in that situation.
This lazy parent thing is really pissing me off, as I mentioned up thread some children just take longer to learn than others. I'm very pleased for the parents of 4 year olds who managed to learn how to tie the perfect knot in under a minute, really I am but don't judge other parents whose children take longer and need a bit of help. You have NO idea whatsoever how much work it can take for some people to get the hang of things that you so smugly dismiss as simple.

littlemog Sat 07-Sep-13 09:18:11

Anne - give up, go on tell me.....

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