to be astonished that secondary kids can't do up a tie

(147 Posts)
SEmyarse Thu 05-Sep-13 21:05:23

Dd1 started secondary today. She has a muscle condition which means that her fingers (amongst other things) are very weak, and she also has very poor co-ordination.

She manages her condition so well in almost every way, and really hates attention being brought to it, so has been practicing doing a tie all summer. She would be mortified to have to ask a teacher to help at this age.

So imagine her surprise when having had PE today, at least 10 kids couldn't get their ties back on, and had to form a queue to get the teacher to help.

Now I get that they've not worn them before, and no-one learns anything instantly but a) why have the parents not taught them? b) why are the kids not concerned themselves that they'll be seen as babies? Someone must have put them on this morning, so they must have been aware they couldn't do them. This doesn't seem like the sort of stuff secondary teachers should have to do.

MrsMook Fri 06-Sep-13 05:30:54

I was 6 when I was taught and mastered doing my own tie in a night.

I've not needed to wear one in 17yrs, but still find them easy. I also got proficient in doing them in my hands with a nice big neck to put over pupils heads when they insisted on doing theirs badly. If they weren't going to do a half-decent job (floppy knot and stub), they could have a perfect square look one from me!

sashh Fri 06-Sep-13 05:45:11

Lol, typical mumsnet, any discussion descends into which man / men you want to dtd with.

TheFallenNinja Fri 06-Sep-13 06:27:35

On my first day as prime minister I'll be outlawing the tie.

Ruprekt Fri 06-Sep-13 06:35:07

I agree OP.

Ds started sec school on Tuesday and he worked hard during the summer to practise his tie and shoelaces!!

Am astonished that parents have not helped their child with this. Ds said that his tutor said he would do sessions with those who were still struggling!

livinginwonderland Fri 06-Sep-13 06:59:07

I learnt in a couple of days when I was about five. I wore one at school between the ages of 5-16. I've not worn one since but it's not exactly complicated to learn. I find it more odd that kids have to spend weeks practising!

Oblomov Fri 06-Sep-13 07:08:20

Why outlaw the tie? I like ties.
Especially Men in suits.
Most children learn to tie their own tie in Reception, at our Primary.

MrsDavidBowie Fri 06-Sep-13 07:14:48

Ooh that was nice to wake up to squoosh grin

i like a man in a contemporary tie. And nothing else.

SEmyarse Fri 06-Sep-13 07:15:24

Sorry if I came across as smug, didn't mean it to be. I outlined dd1's problems as an illustration, not of 'aren't we so great', but how the fear of 'big bullies' made even her do it. I wouldn't expect the average child to need more than a couple of practice runs, but if co-ordination ain't your thing surely the child themselves would be anxious about not being able to get dressed unaided at 11. There may of course have been some sn children amongst the line,but I doubt all of them.

I completely agree that ties are a waste of time.

It just astounds me that all the parents round here seem obsessed with bullying, and buy all manner of stuff so they fit in, make sure they've got a phone so they can call mummy with any problems. But then people send their children to school unprepared. Surely you're more likely to be bullied for not being able to dress yourself, than for not having the absolute 'top brand' bag.

I do not think anyone should be bullied for anything, but if people are going on about fitting in, surely this is the basics.

StickyProblem Fri 06-Sep-13 07:21:28

I work in IT and even for speaking at conferences in front of large audiences it would look oddly formal and old-fashioned to wear a tie. So expecting kids to know how is bizarre IMO. And none of us could do it when I started secondary in 1979 either. Ties are almost obsolete.

TheFallenNinja Fri 06-Sep-13 07:26:06

I cannot think of any time during my life or career where my actions were influenced one way or the the other by a piece of decorative cloth around my neck.

mort à la cravate

DS has learnt to tie a tie this summer as his school has just introduced them. The look of utter disgust on his face when he went in to collect it and it was of the 'clip on' variety.

He is 8!

It's one of those things that probably doesn't cross a parents mind in the transition from primary to secondary school and I presume the kids will be better prepared after their next PE lesson.

scaevola Fri 06-Sep-13 07:27:55

Ties aren't obsolete for men in most of the serious power-wielding jobs in Europe&US and some places beyond that.

DSes learned, I thought, quite late - the week before they went to secondary (no tie in primary). But it only took a couple of goes; it's not exactly complicated, unless no-one has shown you (bit tricky to work out for yourself, I'd expect).

cory Fri 06-Sep-13 07:33:07

Why would you be seen as a baby if you have never worn a tie before?

My dd has just started sixth form and she has never worn a tie in her life: it has not been part of the uniform in any school she has ever attended. I have never worn a tie either: it has never been part of the dress code in any workplace I have ever worked in.

Dh only rarely wears a tie to work and never did in his old job.

It's not a necessary part of growing up like learning to write or to handle a knife and fork. Plenty of people go through life without ever needing to wear a tie. But I am sure your dd's friends will pick it up quickly.

diddl Fri 06-Sep-13 07:33:31

If they didn't wear in primary school, you would think that they would have got to grips with it over the Summer hols tbh.

Teachers doing it for them at that age is ridiculous.

SEmyarse Fri 06-Sep-13 07:40:31

Latest uniform drama - AIBU to think that blazer buttons should stay on for more than one day? She's just got dressed and is already missing one button, and the other is hanging on by a thread. Seriously, she is the least boisterous child in the world. Those buttons must have had only one stitch in them!

StickyProblem Fri 06-Sep-13 07:52:35

So presumably the level of intelligence that gets people into "serious power-wielding jobs" held by about 0.001% of the male population will allow them to learn how to tie a tie when they need to. It's not a skill the wide population need.

squoosh Fri 06-Sep-13 08:14:30

Look around you this morning when you are walking down the street, many, many men are expected towear ties on a daily basis. They are hardly as obsolete as some of you are claiming.

Weddings, funerals, interviews. Not obsolete at all.

PigletJohn Fri 06-Sep-13 08:16:53

Level of intelligence
Manual dexterity
Learned skill

Three different things.
The younger you learn the easier it is.

Would you want your son to be learning to tie his shoelaces, ride a bicycle, boil an egg , sew on a button. or to swim, at age 25?

lemontwist Fri 06-Sep-13 08:21:56

YANBU. I am not surprised though. When DH was a teacher he once spent a good part of his lunch break teaching a 14 year old to tie his shoe laces.

januaryjojo Fri 06-Sep-13 08:30:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MadeOfStarDust Fri 06-Sep-13 08:45:19

Ties are an absolute pain - my dd can tie a tie - the problem is doing it to the "regulation" size/length whatever... more than 7 stripes, less than 10, smaller than golfball sized knot, done up to the neck, but not so tight as to ruffle the collar...... etc etc

So we made up a couple of ties to the regulation, pulled the end through a couple of cm, cut through - behind mid-neck, hemmed and velcro .... easy peasy after PE now, no loosening it off and getting the stripes wrong etc... (they are not allowed clip on, which would be an ideal compromise!)

MrsMelons Fri 06-Sep-13 09:00:05

It should take all of about 5 minutes to show an 11 year old how to do a tie the week before starting school. If they can't surely they can be shown how to just loosen it and pull off over their head.

My DS1 at 4 learnt to do shoe laces in a couple of tries and just started juniors where he has to have a tie and picked it up straight away. I think only half the class can do it properly though and the teacher can't do it either so after PE yesterday the boys came out looking a mess except for DS who had a perfect tie but was 5 minutes after the others as he kept doing it until the length was perfect grin

DS2 had to wear a tie from age 4 and we started showing him the last term of Yr R, he still can't do it perfectly though and has just started Y1. We haven't tried with laces yet but will have to as he needs to wear football boots.

Lj8893 Fri 06-Sep-13 09:56:27

Piglet, all those things you mentioned are things that most children will have needed to do at some point and therefore will have been taught (or self taught).

Wearing a tie, isn't something that everybody has to do. I have never worn a tie and I doubt I ever will.

My daughter (who is still yet to be born!) will likely never have to wear a tie, but if she does I or dp will teach her. But if she doesn't ever have to wear one, then I can't imagine it will ever be on our list of prioritys to teach her!

sameoldIggi Fri 06-Sep-13 10:01:43

MrsMelons if it only took your ds a couple of goes to learn how to tie his shoelaces, it would suggest he has a natural propensity for such things! Have lost count of how often I've tried to show ds1 how to do his.

MrsMelons Fri 06-Sep-13 10:11:16

same I agree and I do think it can be hit and miss at that age, DS2 is a different story altogether but I would expect to be able to teach him in time and certainly by age 11. My brother struggled at infant school but by secondary he could do his tie and laces.

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