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To find people say X public School is OK because

(389 Posts)
NoComet Tue 03-Sep-13 13:08:14

It gets DCs into Oxbridge and RG universities, a daft justification for choosing a school that costs £15,000 plus a year.

We have a local secondary (not even a true comp as there is some creaming off of bright DC by Grammar schools) that is in Special Measures that has just got two pupils in to Oxbridge.

And this is hardly news, bog standard state secondaries and sixform collages all over the country send DCs to Oxbridge and RG Universities every year.

My very ordinary Welsh Comp sent someone in the year above me to study medicine at Oxford, there were others at prestigious med schools and, now, RG uni's me included.

Yes, private schools are very nice, yes DC avoid some DCs with a bad attitude to education, Yes DC get good sports facilities and yes DC may study a wider range of subjects, esp. MFL.

But in the end your DC will, quite likely end up at exactly the same uni, doing the same course, just with poorer parents!

ceramicunicorn Tue 03-Sep-13 13:11:42

But results at public schools are better In general than state schools. Therefore kids are more likely to get into a better uni.

lunar1 Tue 03-Sep-13 13:13:47

I chose independent because we are denied good schooling in our area because we are not religious. The only option left to me would have meant I would have home schooled rather than send my boys there.

I feel very sorry for parents that have no choice other than to use the only school that is an option if you are
Not applying on faith grounds.

angelos02 Tue 03-Sep-13 13:17:40

I think you are massively underestimating the amount of extras you get by going private - smaller classes, disruptive pupils swiftly dealt with, loads of sports facilities, experience in getting pupils into the top universities, all pupils supported by their parents etc etc.

Runningchick123 Tue 03-Sep-13 13:19:17

Thre is also a difference between independent schools and public schools.

elastamum Tue 03-Sep-13 13:19:22

Same here. State ed in our rural area is dire and there is NO CHOICE. You get your catchment school wherever you apply.

My dyslexic DS1 would sink without trace in our local comp. As it is he is as happy as larry and getting straight As. He goes there for the quality of education, not just as a means to get to Oxbridge or RG.

Pixieonthemoor Tue 03-Sep-13 13:22:45

Yes but ceramic has it right - results across the board are better so you are not talking one or two into Oxbridge/RG from a private schools 6th form, you are talking most of the year.

5Foot5 Tue 03-Sep-13 13:29:15

Yes but ceramic has it right - results across the board are better so you are not talking one or two into Oxbridge/RG from a private schools 6th form, you are talking most of the year.

Does this take in to account any selection process though? Many of the top independent schools are not just expensive they also have extremely tough entry requirements, so they start off with academically able children who probably also have access to extra tutoring. The state school down the road will probably be taking everyone, whatever their abilities and background. Consequently you would expect that to have some difference to the results. I suppose you would need some way of measuring the added value made by the school

eurochick Tue 03-Sep-13 13:34:12

Your logic only applies to the 1 or 2 who would have got in any way from the state school, not the much larger number who would have managed it in a good independent.

Beastofburden Tue 03-Sep-13 13:43:35

The main reason for the difference is subject choice. There was a survey of A level results in the Russell Group facilitating subjects (Maths, sciences, English, languages, history, geography) and it found that very large numbers of state schools had no pupils at all scoring AAB in RG subjects, let alone the A*AAA you need to apply to Oxbridge.

I always think its odd. you'd think that fee paying schools would offer the big list of vanity subjects at A levels- the ones that are easy to get As in, but dont get you a job or a Uni offer- and state schools would teach a much smaller number of tried and tested subjects that all get you somewhere. In fact, its the other way round.

I get cross when I see kids encouraged to choose the wrong subjects and then fail to get to the Unis they could have done. Three As in subjects like drama, music, art, business studies, general studies, critical thinking, law, RE, dance... these subjects are OK as fourth subjects, but unless you are doing a music or art degree, you need three other RG subjects. That's what independent schools get. And independent schools also get the A8s in those harder subjects- which state schools dont always, especially in science, because of the shortage of good science teachers.

Tailtwister Tue 03-Sep-13 13:44:53

We went private because there was no other option (unless we lied about our religion). I don't presume it will send my DC to Oxford or Cambridge, but I do think it will give them a chance. A chance to learn in a calm environment, with a decent class size and play in a playground with no graffiti or broken glass. Yes, the other advantages are a bonus, but I just want them to have the opportunity to discover who they are and be the best they can be at whatever they choose.

Sadly, state schools don't always provide that.

NoComet Tue 03-Sep-13 13:51:48

Round here it's not so much direct selection, as the fact that it's bright MC parents, with bright well supported children who can afford to go to our independent schools.

I recon if you closed their schools tomorrow and sent them to the local comps, they would still get just as good a set of results. Perhaps in a slightly smaller number of subjects. DDs BF certainly would have.

In fact many of their results would look better as they would get 8-10 A*/A rather than that plus a couple of Bs in subjects they would have dropped given a choice.

Yes there are a few DCs who no doubt wouldn't do as much work in the more relaxed attitude of a mixed comp, but I'm not sure that would be a huge number.

I have a dyslexic DD1, she certainly doesn't sink at her ordinary comp.

DD2 might actually learn some German at private school, but I think that's the sum total of what I'd be paying for.

Also remember those Stella results you see include incredibly bright far Eastern DCs and incredibly clever children like my DFs DD, given a scholarship because, she would get A* across the board if you gave her the textbook and bite size and no lessons at all.

Wallison Tue 03-Sep-13 13:53:23

People go private because they think they can buy privilege. Unfortunately, they are correct.

Beastofburden Tue 03-Sep-13 13:53:59

5foot5 "The state school down the road will probably be taking everyone, whatever their abilities and background. Consequently you would expect that to have some difference to the results."

Not true where I am. Our local state school takes everyone up to age 16, but then they exercise their right at sixth form to be highly selective. It makes me pretty cross, actually, as kids who have been at their local comp all their lives are kicked out post GCSE so that the sixth form results look better. And lots of kids come across from private schools so that they can put "state" on their University application and get an advantage.

luckily the local FE college is fab and welcomes the other kids with open arms.

Even then, the local comp only manages to get abour 4% to Oxbridge; DS1's school in the same town it is 30%, with 100% RG/medical school. the value added of our local comp is terrible when you consider what they have as raw material. but they offer this wide range of soft subjects, so that's the big difference.

FobblyWoof Tue 03-Sep-13 13:56:59

If I had the money I would send my dc to private school. I'd pick that over a nice car/holiday any day. The results speak for themselves and although, as stated, children from state sxhools are capable of getting into oxbridge etc, private gives the best possible chance.

BrokenSunglasses Tue 03-Sep-13 13:58:53

People use private schools for all sorts of reasons, but they don't have to justify it by saying anything about where students go on to. It's no one else's business.

You don't think it's worth the money, and that's fine. But if other people choose to spend their money in that way, then that's their, perfectly acceptable, choice.

I don't really understand what your point is, except to take a cheap shot at private school parents.

My dc are at state schools btw.

Wallison Tue 03-Sep-13 14:00:59

<<so that they can put "state" on their University application and get an advantage.>>

Ahahahaha! Yes, state school pupils have all the advantages and are discriminated against by the best unis.

Ffs.

Wallison Tue 03-Sep-13 14:01:29

Sorry, that should have read 'private school pupils are discriminated against by the best unis'.

Beastofburden Tue 03-Sep-13 14:02:06

I think if the OP believes this

But in the end your DC will, quite likely end up at exactly the same uni, doing the same course, just with poorer parents!

then her position makes sense.

The difficulty is, the evidence says that she is wrong about that.

Beastofburden Tue 03-Sep-13 14:02:50

wallison- thats what they believe when they move over. I agree they may well be disappointed. I'm only summarising their position, not my own.

chickydoo Tue 03-Sep-13 14:05:25

My DS is at a private school that got 14 A level students in to Oxbridge this year. Most of the rest have been accepted to RG unis.
Our local comp is dire, although the class sizes are now smaller than they used to be due to parents taking kids out to go elsewhere.
Most of the kids at my DS's school would have gone to the dire comp if parents hadn't sent them to his school. I don't think all 15 kids would have got straight A*'s there

Beastofburden Tue 03-Sep-13 14:09:49

But this is really about A level. GCSE is a different ball game, because of course you have bigger classes and some disruptive kids while education is still compulsory at the comp.

But come 6th form, there ought to be so much less difference between state and private. And - I know I am banging on- if only state schools were prepared to focus on teaching just 20 core subjects at A level, it would be cheaper for them and the kids would get to the Unis they deserve.

There are signs that this is starting to happen, and that's why results dipped a bit this year.

burberryqueen Tue 03-Sep-13 14:13:10

(many) people do not send their children to independent for a better education but so they will not have to mix with thick plebs. Xenia said so.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Tue 03-Sep-13 14:15:45

Sigh.... private school results will be better 'across the board' because their board is not very broad. Whereas at state school the brightest and best will get the top results, they will not form 95% of the cohort. So 'across the board' that school's results will not be the same.

Your child's odds are not the same % as the pass rate for the school they go to.

burberryqueen Tue 03-Sep-13 14:17:42

exactly steamingnit

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