To really not understand the logic behind "lifetime tenancies"

(148 Posts)
DrinkFromMyFountain Mon 02-Sep-13 17:31:48

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I am under the impression that once you get a council house you effectively get a lifetime tenancy and (provider you can pay the rent) you can stay in that house for life. I am also aware that council house rents are often well below market rates.

This strikes me as very unfair because obviously people's circumstances can change, and one could say, get a substantial pay rise or get married to a higher earning partner who then moves into the council house. I know housing benefit would stop under these circumstances but they'd still be getting a cheap council house when the didn't really need it.

usualsuspect Mon 02-Sep-13 18:04:48

Council house envy again?

DrinkFromMyFountain Mon 02-Sep-13 18:04:56

fancy you are completely missing the point. I have never and will never look down on someone who lives in a council house.

I strongly believe that everyone who needs a council house should get one. That includes building more social housing.

expatinscotland Mon 02-Sep-13 18:05:20

'To clarify - I wasn't saying the private rental market isn't a mess (I am well aware that it is), I'm all for more regulation in the private sector.'

So you started a thread about council/social housing. I see. hmm

tabulahrasa Mon 02-Sep-13 18:06:10

"This strikes me as very unfair because obviously people's circumstances can change, and one could say, get a substantial pay rise or get married to a higher earning partner who then moves into the council house."

But they could be in that financial position when they get the tenancy, council housing isn't means tested.

OliviaMMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 02-Sep-13 18:08:41

Quick beginning of term link to our guidelines

usualsuspect Mon 02-Sep-13 18:09:55

Just ignore them, fancy.

Like they would want to live on a council estate anyway.

They like to talk about CH tenants like they are another species.

usualsuspect Mon 02-Sep-13 18:10:36

Goady goady goady.

Tortington Mon 02-Sep-13 18:11:27

if more social housing was built thee wouldn't be a problem

therein lies the problem.

gosh DMF, you are so lucky, i have now simply solved your problem.

in short

there isn't enough social housing because the govt are fuckers

there

BrokenSunglasses Mon 02-Sep-13 18:11:32

Social housing was supposed to be available for everyone, not only people who couldn't afford a home any other way.

Of course now there is a shortage, councils have had to devise ways of making sure those most in need get first dibs.

I agree that tenancies should be reviewed more frequently, but I don't think homes should be taken away from people who have managed to improve their situation. If you know that you are going to be turfed out of your home for earning more, then you have no incentive to provide for yourself.

Trills Mon 02-Sep-13 18:11:40

<waves to Olivia>

Lampshadeofdoom Mon 02-Sep-13 18:13:59

so Jane doe is on jsa. Gets a council house, she has two kids , gets a job earning 30k.

She then has to move? Uproot the kids from school, from her support network of neighbours and friends?
Find 1k plus deposit and bond etc?

Why? Council house application in most areas isn't income dependent. You would just keep people down as they wouldn't want to earn more and lose their homes.

MrsDeVere Mon 02-Sep-13 18:15:13

The point in the OP is moot surely?

There are no lifetime tenancies.

You don't get 'given a free house' as it is so often put on threads on MN and NM.

You are allowed to rent a property subject to certain terms and conditions.

Frankly I would rather have a nightmare family in social housing live next to me than a nightmare family in their own house. At least I would have a chance of getting the social housing family kicked out.

specialsubject Mon 02-Sep-13 18:17:30

ah, Wallison the landlord-hater again. Might be worth reading a little bit on the law about tenancies and tenant rights in the UK.

tenants CANNOT be kicked out for no reason. Even if they don't pay the rent and destroy the place, it takes months to evict them legally.

doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Many things that are illegal happen.

sorry to spoil a good story with facts.

HeySoulSister Mon 02-Sep-13 18:20:18

circs can change so quickly.....re marriage,jobs,redundancy....so you'd be forever moving in and out....in fact,no,you wouldn't. you wouldn't get a tenancy again with waiting lists being what they are......so is it cost effective to be chopping and changing so often?

social housing aims to provide STABLILITY

fancyabakeoff Mon 02-Sep-13 18:29:08

kissmeHardy and usualsuspect. Thankyou.

I apologise for the language but my point still stands.

I read mumsnet every day but don't feel the need to post as what I want to say is usually said by someone else already therefore my voice is not needed. That voice, by the way, is usually usualsuspect. She is by far the fairest poster I have ever come across in any forum across the internet (20 years worth of observation). Keep up the good work usual! flowers I'm outta here.

Wallison Mon 02-Sep-13 18:37:31

Trills, why on earth would you want to give more money to people in private rentals - you do realise that that money just goes to private landlords.

We've tried letting the private market take care of housing and it hasn't worked. All that has happened is that it has cost us billions a year in housing subsidies, put millions on council house waiting list and left thousands of families living in B&Bs which also cost an arm and a leg. Time to turn back to public housing provision.

Wallison Mon 02-Sep-13 18:40:08

specialsubject, you say yourself that it takes 'months' to make a tenant homeless, but then in the same breath that they cannot be kicked out. So which is it?

jellybeans Mon 02-Sep-13 18:42:35

Thing is if you say if your circumstances improve you lose your home then you take away the incentive to better yourself. For example, that means that someone who can't be bothered to work would keep their tenancy yet someone who worked hard and got a better paid job would lose theirs.

Wallison Mon 02-Sep-13 18:44:31

And I am aware that tenants do have some nugatory 'rights' on paper but those are overridden by the fact that landlords can give two months' notice for no reason. So all the repairing obligations in the world won't matter a damn if the landlord can just evict them anyway.

LST Mon 02-Sep-13 18:54:01

I have a life time tenancy. My circumstances have also changed. Not by a great deal but a bit more than when I first became a tenant. I have one dc and another on the way. I have never claimed hb and don't qualify for tax credits anymore. But I don't think it's fair of anyone to say I should leave my home that I have put a hell of a lot of money into just because sad

You really think that is fair op?

Lweji Mon 02-Sep-13 18:59:40

I do think circumstances and salaries should be taken into account.

But, at the same time, it's a bit heartless to make someone move from a home they have been in for most of their lives, particularly elderly people.

Larger homes often allow family to visit, rather then being cramped in a one bed flat, for example.

However, larger salaries should attract market rates if the house is maintained to proper standards by the council. Are they, though, or the tenant has to invest a lot in it?

SoonToBeSix Mon 02-Sep-13 19:02:55

Op you are believing the tabloid/ current government myth. Council/ Ha properties were never intended for low income families they were designed as affordable homes for anyone to live in.

SoonToBeSix Mon 02-Sep-13 19:06:09

There are lots of lifetime tenancies , there is a very small number of local authorities that no longer offer them.

SoonToBeSix Mon 02-Sep-13 19:08:11

Kiss me right to buy was a good thing , what caused the problem was the fact that they "pocketed the money"instead of using it to build new homes.

Lampshadeofdoom Mon 02-Sep-13 19:08:25

Can I add as someone who has been in private rent six years, we have been made homeless as landlord remortgaged and ran with money, had two houses sold and one where landlord went bust and lost all houses. My dc have been in SEVEN schools, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

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