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to think Caroline Lucas is fantastic

(59 Posts)
kim147 Tue 20-Aug-13 19:22:09

What with her recent contribution to the Page 3 debate in the House of Commons and her recent arrest at a sit in about fracking - she's just great.

You might not agree with her politics but she certainly has passion.

lljkk Wed 21-Aug-13 16:21:39

I'd wager money the village would be just as opposed to a small local wind farm being built as they are to the hint of local fracking. I dunno if I could stand to mix in with them.

flatpackhamster Wed 21-Aug-13 16:25:08

VerySmallSqueak

It's always been someone's job to try to discredit any protest group.

ISTM that they don't need any discrediting.

Obviously,flatpack I realise that the article you linked to isn't one that you believe is impartial and representative,because I know that you are way too clever for that!

No, I'm sure that there were well-informed people there who knew all about fracking and had a solid understanding of the consequences of opposition to it. Somewhere. Behind the hippies, and the 9/11 truthers, and the unemployables, and the pagans and druids and hemp oil cancer cure peddlers.

MiniTheMinx

I wouldn't wish the results of this nice little mixture on anyone, I don't know what the results are of mixing this lot and pumping it at high pressure into the ground. Do you? I don't think anyone really knows what the long term environmental effects of this will be.

Given that it's been going on for 60 years in one form or another, we have a very good idea of processes, risks and effects. It's not a new technology and it's not being applied in a new way.

MiniTheMinx Wed 21-Aug-13 17:04:44

I'm local to Balcombe, I don't have any problem with small local wind farms. Its preferable to climate warming and hundreds of tankers using the local roads.

I am assuming FlatPack you won't have any reservations if they decide to drill in your back yard?

Sussex police funding comes out of local taxes and yet it appears that the police are acting like private security service for cuadrilla.

luckylavender Wed 21-Aug-13 18:08:34

Those of you who love the self-publicist that is Caroline Lucas probably don't live in Brighton where her green agenda has pushed businesses to the brink and driven tourists out of the town.

ColinFirthsGirth Wed 21-Aug-13 18:13:28

I really respect Caroline Lucas!

flatpackhamster Wed 21-Aug-13 19:24:24

MiniTheMinx

I'm local to Balcombe, I don't have any problem with small local wind farms.

Why am I not surprised that you live in Brighton?

Its preferable to climate warming and hundreds of tankers using the local roads.

Wind farms won't stop the climate warming.

I am assuming FlatPack you won't have any reservations if they decide to drill in your back yard?

No. None at all.

Sussex police funding comes out of local taxes and yet it appears that the police are acting like private security service for cuadrilla.

That's probably how it appears if you have no respect for the law, as we've seen with these swampies.

Meerkatwhiskers Wed 21-Aug-13 19:28:32

Can't stand Caroline Lucas and think this just doesn't help her cause in the slightest. Plus on a personal level she's made it chuffing expensive to park in Brighton!!!!

I live close to Balcombe and I really am not bothered either way what they do there. If I get cheaper gas bills then I'm all up for it. But the access isn't great as the roads are small. I'm not too sure where the actual site is but i know where all the protesters are and it's a country road so it's not ideal.

As for the police being security guards, well they don't really have a choice. There are more protesters turning up all the time and they aren't actually doing exploratory work at the moment and weren't when all the arrests were made at the weekend. The work was ceased on friday.

The police helicopter is constantly flying over at the moment and that is costing the force a fair bit too.

The protesters just need to let them to the exploratory work and then see what happens. They might decide the site isn't suitable and so not even do anything and if they do go ahead well then protest. No point when it's all speculation.

Garcia10 Wed 21-Aug-13 19:29:08

I want to know where she and the others were when the fracking was happening on the Fylde in the NW. Fracking only seems to be a problem now it is being considered in the South.

Meerkatwhiskers Wed 21-Aug-13 19:31:29

Why are those ingredients all repeated several times? It really isn't that long a list.

MiniTheMinx Wed 21-Aug-13 20:13:20

Sorry I copied and should have checked. Over 300 chemicals are used in total. Some of the chemicals used are known carcinogens.

frack-off.org.uk/campaign-materials/science-and-data/ plenty of information here about the dangers of fracking.

The site at Balcombe is on the London Rd, south of the Railway Station.
Any seismic activity will probably bring the viaduct down!

Reduced consumer costs are not a good argument. The companies involved in this ecocide have admitted that this won't bring down domestic fuel costs.

iyuo Wed 21-Aug-13 20:53:56

Whilst its good to see people standing up for what they believe Lucas is a left-wing lunatic so I can credit her no further.

flatpackhamster Thu 22-Aug-13 07:28:15

Those sneering about the 'Reds under the bed' thing - Apparently a declassified Polish intelligence report last year showed that Russian spies are engaged in widespread espionage activities targeting Poland's shale projects - that they are actively lobbying the EU to have fracking banned http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/10257988/Polands-shale-drive-will-transform-Europe-if-it-does-not-drop-the-ball.html. Russia uses the EU's dependence on it for oil and gas as a political lever.

MiniTheMinx

Sorry I copied and should have checked. Over 300 chemicals are used in total. Some of the chemicals used are known carcinogens.

Which isn't a problem since you're not eating or drinking them. Just as you wouldn't, say, eat and drink the chemicals used to clean the tankers that transport milk around the country, or you wouldn't eat and drink the chemicals used to sterilise the floors of the supermarket.

^The site at Balcombe is on the London Rd, south of the Railway Station.
Any seismic activity will probably bring the viaduct down!^

This is so mental I don't even know what to do with it.

Reduced consumer costs are not a good argument.

If you're a smug rich greenie. If you're a normal person, paying £600 a year less on heating and electricity would be great.

The companies involved in this ecocide have admitted that this won't bring down domestic fuel costs.

Link, please. Gas costs in the US have halved.

flatpackhamster Thu 22-Aug-13 07:28:43

Damnit. Broken link. I'll try again.

TramadolDaze Thu 22-Aug-13 08:00:58

luckylavender Wed 21-Aug-13 18:08:34

Those of you who love the self-publicist that is Caroline Lucas probably don't live in Brighton where her green agenda has pushed businesses to the brink and driven tourists out of the town

Exactly that. Traffic at a standstill at peak times. Bus lanes that have overtaken main through routes and rendered them all but unusable. Parking charges on the seafront up from £9 for the day to £20 - that's really going to encourage visitors to come and spend their money here isn't it. I could go on but it's too depressing. Hope her raggy stewed lentil arse is voted the fuck out at the next available opportunity.

flatpackhamster Thu 22-Aug-13 11:48:48

Apparently, the Democratic governor of the US state of Colorado drank the fluid used for fracking at a meeting with Halliburton to discuss safety issues.

Since he's still the governor of Colorado, I think it's probably not quite as dangerous as the ecomentalists would like you to believe.

HystericalParoxysm Thu 22-Aug-13 13:20:49

Flat pack I'm interested as to why you are so pro fracking?

VerySmallSqueak Thu 22-Aug-13 14:04:57

I,for one, am a normal person,certainly not smug and rich.

I would rather decrease my energy useage than take chances with the environment and my childrens future to decrease my bills.

I am also anti nuclear energy.

We were promised negligible fuel bills,which didn't materialise,but as we speak the Fukishima reactor is still leaking radioactivity.

Where does it all end?

flatpackhamster Thu 22-Aug-13 14:15:33

HystericalParoxysm

Flat pack I'm interested as to why you are so pro fracking?

Firstly, cheaper gas is good for everyone, particularly those on low incomes. Fuel poverty is a direct consequence of high fuel prices. Electricity prices have doubled since 2005. Under the EU's renewables directive, they're calculated to double again in 7 years (in real terms). People will go hungry and cold without fracking. With it, we'll see real improvements in people's quality of life if the fall in gas prices that has appeared in the US is replicated here. Far fewer old men and women dying of hypothermia in winter is a good thing.

Secondly, fracking brings jobs - particularly skilled, technical jobs - to areas that are desperate for skilled employment. Northern England is crying out for skilled technical employment.

Thirdly, it frees us from dependence on Russian gas and oil, which means that we can make political decisions which might upset them without having to worry about whether they're going to raise the price of oil.

Fourthly, cheaper gas means the cost of doing business falls. European businesses are paying four times the price for gas that American businesses are paying. That's affecting their ability to compete and that also means that they employ fewer people.

flatpackhamster Thu 22-Aug-13 14:27:39

VerySmallSqueak

I would rather decrease my energy useage than take chances with the environment and my childrens future to decrease my bills.

By how much? What will you turn off? Will you go without a freezer or a fridge or a car to 'save the planet'? How about if we got rid of your iPad? Your phone? Your cooker?

I'm serious - what will you go without?

I am also anti nuclear energy.

What sort of energy do you approve of? What do you consider 'acceptable'?

We were promised negligible fuel bills,which didn't materialise,but as we speak the Fukishima reactor is still leaking radioactivity.

Yes, that's what happens when a nuclear power station is hit with a devastating earthquake and a gigantic tsunami. It's not an argument against nuclear power at all, really.

Where does it all end?

Hopefully with you learning a bit about nuclear power.

VerySmallSqueak Thu 22-Aug-13 15:26:30

flatpack.

I have no i thingies,and no freezer and no dishwasher. I also have no car.

Of course I use energy. But I would be far happier to reduce my useage further as I have said.

On to the second point. Wind power.Solar power. Stuff that isn't going to fuck the planet. Is that ok?

3rd point. Shit happens. We do have earthquakes and tsunamis.It's the nature of the beast. If you recall,no earthquake or tsunamis were involved in the Chernobyl or Three Mile Island meltdowns.....

4th point. Sweetness and light as ever aren't you,flatpack,me dear.

I know all I need to know.

Meerkatwhiskers Thu 22-Aug-13 15:55:49

Thanks for letting me know where the site is Mini. I live further up the Balcombe Road so a little oblivious to it really (in a bigger town, by the motorway junction).

My uncle explained to me the other day how solar panels that they install on your roof work and they aren't even worth the cost of building them. The amount of energy they create will not even heat up a kettle let alone your bath. For a country that doesn't have sun most of the year it just isn't a viable source of energy. He's a engineer and designs all things like that btw.

As for wind power, I don't have sources but I am sure i've read somewhere that it also isn't a viable energy source. The farm that is off the kent coast, for example, is not enough to power many houses for a length of time so you would need to cover a vast ocean to get enough power. Might have been from a museum I've been to thinking about it around the south-east coast.

At the end of the day, we are consuming energy, we need cheaper energy, they are offering cheaper energy, yes please!! I'm with Flatpack (are you from Ikea? lol)

flatpackhamster Thu 22-Aug-13 17:52:14

VerySmallSqueak

I have no i thingies,and no freezer and no dishwasher. I also have no car. Of course I use energy. But I would be far happier to reduce my useage further as I have said.

But what will you give up? You're going to have to cut your consumption in half. In fact, more than half, because I'm not going to cut mine.

On to the second point. Wind power.Solar power. Stuff that isn't going to fuck the planet. Is that ok?

Not really. Do you know how they make wind turbines? They use a rare earth, called Neodymium, for the magnets. To extract it they use a technique called acid leaching. They hose the piles of rock down with sulphuric and other acids, and that draws out the rare earths.

This requires masses of water and lots of acid. Once the rare earths are extracted, you're left with tailing lakes - tens of millions of gallons of toxic waste.

Because 90% of rare earths are produced in China, the production of rare earths is poorly regulated. The tailing lakes leach in to the ground. It poisons the water table, kills wildlife, crops and cattle.

It might be out of sight, but it's fucking the planet just the same.

3rd point. Shit happens. We do have earthquakes and tsunamis.It's the nature of the beast. If you recall,no earthquake or tsunamis were involved in the Chernobyl or Three Mile Island meltdowns.....

4th point. Sweetness and light as ever aren't you,flatpack,me dear.

Would you listen any more if I was? Of course not, because you already know it all. Just like you know all about acid leaching.

I know all I need to know.

Ahh, the Big Three. Look, shout the anti-nuclear campaigners. Chernobyl! Three Mile Island! Fukushima! And no matter how clearly the science is explained, it matters not, because the closed mind decrees that all nuclear must be bad, because - oooh, nuclear, scary.

flatpackhamster Thu 22-Aug-13 17:55:44

Meerkatwhiskers

As for wind power, I don't have sources but I am sure i've read somewhere that it also isn't a viable energy source. The farm that is off the kent coast, for example, is not enough to power many houses for a length of time so you would need to cover a vast ocean to get enough power. Might have been from a museum I've been to thinking about it around the south-east coast.

There are lots of problems with wind and solar, but the biggest one in terms of relying on it for power is what's called Base Load. Base load is the minimum amount that the plant generates. You work out how much the country needs, and your power plants need to generate that as a minimum.

The great thing about nuclear, for example, is that a 1000MW reactor will produce 1000MW of power. Wind doesn't have a base load, because sometimes the wind doesn't blow, or isn't blowing hard enough, or is blowing too hard.

So you can't use wind - or solar - for your base load. You need to have a backup for it.

Denmark, which has buckets of wind turbines, has to import power from Germany when the wind doesn't blow, because it doesn't have enough base load to provide power for its needs.

thebirdsandbees Thu 22-Aug-13 18:02:15

Love her! She's a politician with morals.

BangOn Thu 22-Aug-13 18:07:41

I lurve her. Such intelligence & passion. A friend of mine used to work with her before she was elected, & in her early days as an MP, & was blown at the sheer amount of knowledge she just has 'up here' without teams of speechwriters or assistants flapping around her. So calm, cool, collected & lucid.

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