to think having enough fuel in a plane is quite important if there's an emergency and most people would probably pay a bit of money to ensure their plane does not crash

(94 Posts)
kim147 Wed 07-Aug-13 08:41:29

A certain budget airline has been accused of restricting the amount of fuel planes carry to the legal minimum which makes handling emergencies and diversions more difficult.

But of course - it does save money and cut costs so that's ok.

www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/exclusive-safety-warning-as-budget-airlines-such-as-ryanair-cut-fuel-levels-for-flights-8749046.html

Looking forward to a reserve fuel supplement coming soon to the final bill.

livinginwonderland Wed 07-Aug-13 10:23:05

The article might be dated this month but the info in it is old. There were articles about this back in 2010 at least.

DayOldCheesecake Wed 07-Aug-13 10:30:57

Yep, info is old, old, old.

Surely everyone knows that Ryanair are a safety hazard and that they pay their pilots peanuts so only get the shit ones.

Caster8 Wed 07-Aug-13 10:37:12

The Spanish report about the ryanair incident is only out recently. That is why the independent are talking about it.

I am only flying flybe because round here, there is only the choice of a budget airline or nowt. Others in my party are refusing to travel several hundred miles by other transport means, which I want to use.

To be fair to the budget airlines, there haven't been catastrophes yet..

MidniteScribbler Wed 07-Aug-13 10:44:17

If they're carrying the legal limit, then they aren't breaking any laws as far as I can see. Reserve fuel is just what it says on the label - reserve, in case of delay or diversion.

If people weren't so obsessed with paying peanuts for a flight, and thinking that it's some sort of "right" to cheap travel, airlines wouldn't be looking for ways to cut costs as much as possible.

starfishmummy Wed 07-Aug-13 10:44:51

I think that as planes are obviously dropping out of the sky all the time due to lack of fuel, we should immediately ban all air travel

MildredIsMyAlterEgo Wed 07-Aug-13 11:08:08

starfish grin

Between us OH and I make around 8 return flights a year with Ryanair and have done for the past 6 years or so. The only problems we've ever encountered have been due to weather related diversions/airport closure.

I like Ryanair smile

PasswordProtected Wed 07-Aug-13 11:26:13

OK, just got answer from senior pilot (25+ years' experience with major European airline).
Minimum requirement for fuel is from start airport to destination plus enough for 45 minutes' holding time plus flight to an alternative airport with standard approach procedure.
Of course everyone knows that O'Leary makes these statements to get publicity.

flowery Wed 07-Aug-13 11:32:40

"Minimum requirement for fuel is from start airport to destination plus enough for 45 minutes' holding time plus flight to an alternative airport with standard approach procedure"

That sounds like plenty to me. Is this a fuss over nothing?

livinginwonderland Wed 07-Aug-13 11:45:00

Of course it is, flowery. Just another excuse to bash Ryanair!

Tee2072 Wed 07-Aug-13 12:19:13

Ryanair deserves every bashing it gets. They are hardly an upstanding company!

livinginwonderland Wed 07-Aug-13 12:27:14

Why do they? Why are they SO much worse than any other airline? They're cheap, they're on time and I don't know anyone whose every had a problem with them. If you don't want to fly with them, fine, but I don't see how they're any worse than anyone else.

kim147 Wed 07-Aug-13 12:32:37

Why are they cheap?

Do you know the contracts the staff are employed under? The staff have to pay for their own training. The pilots are unhappy because of their conditions.

They're on time - if you play round with the stats and then also assume it takes longer to get to a destination than it actually does. I've also got a friend who is a pilot for another budget airline and we've discussed lots of this issues.

Sure - no plane has crashed. Yet. But cheap is cheap for a reason and personally I want my aircrew and pilots to be happy in their work and not to be under pressure to cut corners - even if it's still within legal limits.

sashh Wed 07-Aug-13 12:34:50

To be fair to the budget airlines, there haven't been catastrophes yet..

Not with UK carriers but there certainly have in the US, and Ryanair is modeled on the US budget carriers. Check out Colgan Air 3407

It's not just the fuel, has your pilot had a propper rest before flying? What about the copilot? How well trained are the crew? How experienced is every crew member?

Then there is the ground crew, has the plane been deiced if it is cold? Have the pito tubes been covered? Was the maintenance done overnight in a hurry? Who did the maintenance? (many airlines don't do their own, Virgin used to, may still be, serviced by BA engineers)

When the pilot walks around the plane before a flight and sees a grey mark do they assume it's a bit of dirt or call maintenance to check it is dirt and not structural damage?

OK back to the fuel, has whoever filled the plane done it in metric or imperial measures? Has the pilot noticed?

<yes I do watch a lot of air crash investigations>

Shenanagins Wed 07-Aug-13 12:41:28

I seem to recall similar concerns being raised by British authorities in relation to Aeroflot flying over London. I can't remember the outcome but the consequences could have been catastrophic, not a risk i would like to take.

Rooners Wed 07-Aug-13 12:43:26

I don't fly anyway. I think it's asking for trouble, because once you're up there, there's only one way to get down.

Sorry...I am at the height of my AS on this topic! no one will ever convince me that flying, large scale, for no good reason is a sensible thing to do.

Tee2072 Wed 07-Aug-13 12:48:34

Why are they worse? Have you ever read the stories in here and elsewhere?

It's no longer "budget" if you have to pay £££ for what others provide in their price.

I paid £15 a ticket on BA recently, not including taxes, and had 51 pounds of baggage allowance, for example.

AnnabelleLee Wed 07-Aug-13 12:53:42

This is really stupid scaremongering.
If you don't like Ryanair, don't use them.

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 12:57:05

This happened with DS's flight last week. They needed to land at Gatwick but as they came in the pilot had to abort landing due to ground fog. They had not enough fuel to go intoa holding pattern so the plane got diverted to Stansted at 1 a.m, was then refuelled and flew back to Gatwick arriving three hours late.

I thought that night landings were banned at Stansted too.

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 12:57:27

And he flew with Thompson BTW

Caster8 Wed 07-Aug-13 12:58:24

Having reread the independent article, it seems to me that Ryanair pilots can take an extra 300kg of fuel for emergencies. They are advised by higher ups at ryanair to take 150kgs. But this particular pilot took 0kgs.

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 13:04:27

We stopped using Ryanair. On our last flight with them we were seated in the last row when a man came and sat next to us near the aisle. He then got up, left a large briefcase on his seat, wandered up the aisle and disappeared. We couldn't see him and upon alerting the staff that a large bag had apparently been abandoned, they were totally uninterested (presumably so they could stick to their punishing schedules.) We kicked up a polite but firm fuss, told other passengers and after five minutes and very grudgingly, they put out an alert.

Turns out the guy had left the bag, got off the plane, wandered back to the terminal for some reason not known then come back and boarded the plane via a different stairway and sat at the front.

Ryanair were perfectly happy to fly that plane in the full knowledge that a piece of baggage had apparently been abandoned on it.

So they lost at least 30 flights a year worth of custom.

pigletmania Wed 07-Aug-13 13:05:07

I wisgph I had not, I'm flying Ryanair in a few weeks shock

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 13:10:28

Just keep your eyes peeled Piglet and ask them how much fuel they have grin.

Just don't shout 'fill 'er up son' at the ground staff.

kim147 Wed 07-Aug-13 13:14:05

I'm just looking to the day when they weigh each passenger and charge you according to the overall weight.

A heavier plane is more fuel.

livinginwonderland Wed 07-Aug-13 13:17:01

I have read the stories, and all of them are as a result of people not following the rules laid down by Ryanair on their website

Ryanair are cheap if you follow their rules. Everyone knows that they charge extra for hold luggage, food, printing boarding cards etc - if you're not happy to pay extra for those, then fly with another airline. It's not as though they're surprise added costs. It's right there when you pay on their website.

So what if the staff are made to pay for their own training?! Nobody is forcing them to train there. If they don't want to pay, they can choose to fly with a different airline!

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