To be incredulous that this little boy wasn't protected (warning - distressing news coverage)

(252 Posts)
LEMisdisappointed Wed 31-Jul-13 21:11:21

news article

I am so angry - yet another child tortured and murdered by his "parents". The school had written comments in the "concerns" book, yet still this poor little mite was starved and beaten systematically over a period of time. Do professionals become numb to childrens needs? Does no one check FFS????

My DD is a healthy child (thankfully) and never taken to the GP as she hardly ever gets sick, the only times she has been in the past few years are for injuries - nothing serious apart from biting through her tongue (ouchie), another time she burnt her hand and more recently a horse trod on her toe. The nurse commented that she was "accident prone" and asked if we had a social worker hmm Fair enough actually, although DP was offended, although no follow up action taken. It looks worse i guess because they are the only notes on her medical record since she was a baby (shes 8 now). Everyone talks about "safeguarding" but it appears that they are just paying lip service to it and children are suffering either through unintentional neglect or willful cruelty.

I don't understand, after the whole Baby P thing that this can still slip through the net angry

wannaBe Fri 02-Aug-13 16:16:40

At the end of the day, the people responsible for this child's death were his mother and stepfather. And in truth, if you had a previously healthy happy child who appeared to deteriorate would you automatically assume abuse? esp given there was another sibling who was in good health? It's very easy to sit on the sidelines and look at the evidence, evidence gathered after the murder and the criminal investigation, and say that someone should have seen/noticed something and done something.

The first time Daniel presented with a broken arm he was apparently a happy chubby child, no-one could have predicted at that point that he would be starved. And in truth he wasn't starved to death, yes he was emaciated and this should not be discounted, but starvation was not the cause of his death, so while it's easy to sit here and say that a child was being starved to death, in fact it's the wider abuse that was the issue here.

The people responsible here are the parents. On the whole I am not an advocate of the death penalty, but I think there are some exceptions...

candycoatedwaterdrops Fri 02-Aug-13 15:30:12

Goldenbear You seem to be (purposely?) misunderstanding. The issue was that information was not correctly shared and communicated effectively, thus each professional involved did not see the whole picture, rather glimpses of it. From what I've seen, most people are agreeing that there needs to be a better approach to joined up to with safeguarding cases.

Goldenbear Fri 02-Aug-13 15:12:20

Sash, how many times do we see on here a thread complaining that a teacher is interfering because they have shown concern over their child who is very underweight and only fed half a sandwich for packed lunch, is emptying the contents of bins to satisfy that hunger and has quite a lot of bruising in unlikely places including two black eyes. You simply don't read anything like that on here and I for one have only ever read about people not wanting their children to be weighed because they're a bit chubby. Or the results have come back from a weighing exercise and someone's child is considered obese. The poster asking for reassurance about this from others. I have not once read my child is very underweight, I give him half a sandwich for lunch but they're quering my motivation behind this considering his weight.

HopALongOn, exactly there were previous concerns for this child, the weight issue was not appearing to improve, he was looking in bins for food and yet he turns up to school with bruising on his neck and two black eyes and nothing is recorded the day this occurs. Is it usual practice then to wait for a period of time to pass until such an incident would be recorded- I don't think so is the answer to that.

People who think Daniel was failed by apparent 'child services' are asking why- with so many indicators of abuse this child was let down. I cannot believe people are essentially arguing that nothing could've been done better- are you kidding?

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit Fri 02-Aug-13 11:27:28

A week is not a long time. From the news is seems like this happened over the course of six months, I can easily see how it slipped through the net when you consider how long it takes to get the wheels of beauroracy moving and even for teachers etc to see a pattern.

handcream Fri 02-Aug-13 11:07:50

Sashh - I didnt realise that re translators. Thank you for the clarification.

Black eyes, how awful. Surely to God someone should have realised. I know I am looking for someone to blame. I am sorry. I just dont understand how a young boy had two black eyes and nothing was done. What on earth have those scum been doing to that poor boy.

For me its the pictures of him at school, smiling for the camera. What on earth was his short life like? And he managed a smile. Makes me want to cry.

sashh Fri 02-Aug-13 10:55:43

I heard on the Radio that he had TWO black eyes a week before his death and the TA described him as looking very thin so why was the action taken so minimal?

How many times on here have there been posts saying 'AIBU to be furious with the school for giving my child (insert nuts, chocolate, meat, fruit shoot etc).

Or complaints about children being weighed?

Teachers can only do so much.

How many parents saw him at drop of and pick up time?

Apparently the mother and her boyfriend needed translators as did the father when he spoke.

It is a right in English law that you can present evidence in your first language. Few Welsh speakers can't communicate in English but they can give evidence in Welsh in an English court.

TheDoctrineOfAllan Fri 02-Aug-13 10:23:26

I don't understand people saying "the jury saw right through her" - at that point, Daniel was dead and police had spent months building the case. Very different situation.

handcream Fri 02-Aug-13 09:41:01

Also wondering if the man was wanted in Poland for some crimes why he was allowed to leave and come to the UK.

handcream Fri 02-Aug-13 09:40:24

I agree Northern but I am wondering why they clearly had poor English, the birth father on TV spoke in Polish after they had been in the UK for a number of years

People can do bad things whatever their nationality.

handcream Thu 01-Aug-13 21:57:33

Christine - oh God! I was just guessing. This family needs a urgent review if they think this is normal behaviour. They are also Polish which does surprise me tbh. I have a Polish friend and they pride themselves on being family oriented and really quite traditional in their views.

handcream Thu 01-Aug-13 21:55:09

I dont necessarily agree that giving unlimied amounts of money will change the outcome. Its the way these cases are investigated and the way agencies work on their own that's the issue. No one had the overall story.

When money was being poured into government agencies it wasnt any better.

ChristineDaae Thu 01-Aug-13 21:53:58

Hand cream that's exactly what she's done!

gordyslovesheep Thu 01-Aug-13 21:51:46

I think if you read it as 'blaming the current government' you have misread my post - under funding of agencies for children and families is ONE undeniable issue - it is not the only one

Your information held by public bodies is subject to data protection...yes in an actual safeguarding concern situation that is overridden - but if you have niggly worries and a need to find information (such as a new social housing address for a missing young person) you will struggle to access that

People don't share - often people don't even record information accurately, often people forget, make mistakes etc

BUT if you have one person investigating 12 cases or one person dealing with 40 can see which might miss something - a social worker I know has recently had this happen due to redundancies and cut backs - so you also can't escape the FACTS that most of the local funding cuts have impacted on children, young people, the elderly and families - making safeguarding a LOT harder

earlier intervention would be better - for all families - but that cost money

handcream Thu 01-Aug-13 21:47:40

Apparently when they were in court they seemed accepting of what had happened. Lets wait for GM claiming her daughter is a victim and was made to do it by her wicked boyfriend.

I would be storming into this family and seeing what is going on when they blame a crime as wicked and violent as this on SS. What is going on within the extended family. Another red flag I think if they think this is normal behaviour to be blamed on others.

ChristineDaae Thu 01-Aug-13 21:44:06

Haven't read the whole thread, but on sky news there is an article from this disgrace of a woman's mother defending her and blaming social services for failing 'the test'
Clearly a deluded family

Lazyjaney Thu 01-Aug-13 21:43:36

Lazyjaney what do you base your impossibility predictions on? Is it because this country is such a leader in CP that we cannot further improve our exemplar practices?

How many kids are under great threat every year do you think? How foolproof would a system have to be to have no one falling through the cracks? If a system is 99.9% foolproof (very high level for dealing with people) then you need only 1000 kids being very badly parented to get one of these cases a year. We have c 15 m kids in the UK.

handcream Thu 01-Aug-13 21:43:31

Its interesting as well. Apparently the mother and her boyfriend needed translators as did the father when he spoke. Not sure why as they have been in the UK for a number of years. Why do people move to a country and make no real effort to learn a language. Surely you cannot get by without knowing it let alone get a job.

handcream Thu 01-Aug-13 21:38:23

Phew, I thought you were asking me to safeguard all children.

I dont work in SS but do have two children. I do really think that the agencies arent joined up. They have some 'concerns' but not enough to intervene, however looking at the whole case might well make someone come to a very different conclusion.

I might get flamed but for me these are the red flags

1. Mother who is always trying to explain brusies and weight loss to everyone who asks. Defensive and has a ready answer for everything. The jury saw right through her.

2. Son has poor attendance at school. When he is there he is found searching the bins

3. Single mother (I know flame me!) with skanky boyfriend who I believe was wanted in Poland for other crimes and someone correct me if I am wrong worked as a prositute. Why wasnt that flagged? Birth father showing no interest but quick to blame what has happened on others. Did he not see Daniel at all? Did he not wonder why he was so frail and underweight.

4. Refusual by family to allow Daniel to be seen when visited at home. Can you imagine where they locked him to ensure he wasnt available?

kim147 Thu 01-Aug-13 21:24:41


Sorry - that's a response to the interview question "How do you keep a child safe?" with the response "Can you?"

I'd like to think that there are many children who are being kept safe due to intervention work and because someone said something.

Unfortunately, in this area,mistakes cost lives.

And as usual, lessons will be learnt. The same ones we probably already know.

Goldenbear Thu 01-Aug-13 21:17:51

LazeyJaney what do you base your impossibility predictions on? Is it because this country is such a leader in CP that we cannot further improve our exemplar practices?

handcream Thu 01-Aug-13 21:12:40

Kim - sorry I am not sure I understand the comment 'Can you?'

I am trying to make the point that there are always comments such as 'lessons learnt' etc. There is something seriously wrong here. People blaming underfunding and the lastest government. Do you really think throwing money at this problem will resolve it or do we need to start to become more joined up.

An agency perhaps overseeing a case that over arches ALL agencies, police, medical profession etc and can take responsibility having all the facts from all the depts involved.

Goldenbear Thu 01-Aug-13 21:12:07

I think there is quite a consensus of indignation based on the lack of intervention, communication between Actors- minimal. People are basing their arguments on what they have heard or read, this information is the basis of most peoples' knowledge on this thread unless you were personally involved with the case. Personally, I can read and decipher information to Inform my view on a news article as I'm sure a lot of people can. Equally, people are aware of the legal restrictions and are arguing for changes in CP, a complete overhaul.

kim147 Thu 01-Aug-13 21:07:24


Wasn't that what came out of other serious case reviews in the past?


I'm just doing some refresher training for child protection. I always get asked about it at interviews - "How do you keep a child safe?"

Can you?

filthycute Thu 01-Aug-13 20:59:17

gamesetandmatch More courage to do what you did and push and push. All of us want to have been able to prevent this. a shared culture of non acceptance, of transparency and support. Children need to know no one thinks this is ok.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now