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To want to make myself believe in god?

(1000 Posts)
HopHopHopSkip Thu 25-Jul-13 22:55:10

I have always been very logical and so despite going to a Christian primary school, having a very religious mum(though not in a pushy way) and reading the bible when I was younger(the story version grin I was a bit of a book worm) I have never really got my head around how god could be possible.

But I really wish I had the extra "something" that some people seem to find by believing in god. I'm probably not making much sense, but I wish I could get myself to feel like there's somebody watching out, that there's something after death, that everything happens for what'd ultimately a good reason/what's meant to be so on.

AIBU to try going to church for a bit even though I don't believe in god? Or am I just being silly, is it something you can't 'make' yourself feel?

atrcts And I think if all light, love and goodness were removed from the world entirely, you really would notice!

Are you deliberately misreading what I have written? I have never said I don't need light, love and goodness. I have said that I don't need the Biblical god to have those things in my life. Those things exist in my life regardless. They don't come from the Biblical god. Atheists and humanists don't need someone threatening them with eternal damnation to be kind to one another, do they? People are nice to each other because it is in our nature to live in tribes and to support each other, not because some despot is threatening them with wailing and gnashing of teeth.

headinhands Fri 02-Aug-13 10:53:20

The escalations were not in one hit, they followed warning after warning

I don't see how the escalation method makes it any more moral. If someone threatened me in this manner and I went to the police and showed them what the other person had said, would it seem fair if the police said 'sorry, but because they've threateneded you in escalating manner they haven't done anything wrong'?

headinhands Fri 02-Aug-13 10:55:59

threateneded

Lol

atrcts Fri 02-Aug-13 11:09:30

Are you deliberately misreading what I have written? I have never said I don't need light, love and goodness. I have said that I don't need the Biblical god to have those things in my life.

No, wasn't misreading, just that we view things differently. I believe God is who He says He is; and you do not. But your disbelief does not affect my views, and I am speaking about my views regarding where we get goodness and love etc.

headinhands Fri 02-Aug-13 11:10:38

That she should be tortured because her logical mind rejected the claims of the Quran (her parents were Muslim) and he will spend eternity in heaven because he found god, which happened to be the god they talked to him about in prison. I have no idea what on earth you're talking about here - what post have I missed?

Let's say in that scenario that she was from a Muslim background but had rejected Islam. And because the rapist is in a UK jail he is predominately exposed to the Christian religion as opposed to the other 4,199 religions.

atrcts Fri 02-Aug-13 11:11:51

worldgonecrazy - But as I grew older I became more turned on by the idea of self responsibility

So you're trusting in and relying upon yourself.

Have you ever let yourself down or been wrong?

claig Fri 02-Aug-13 11:14:41

"Have you ever let yourself down or been wrong?"

It would be quicker to ask when headinhands has been right wink

headinhands Fri 02-Aug-13 11:15:17

So you're trusting in and relying upon yourself

As you are when you make a moral assement of god.

atrcts Fri 02-Aug-13 11:16:30

Question for you headinhands.
Cast your mind back to your scenario about the atheist woman versus the repentant rapist.

If you believe the rapist should not be forgiven, what would you do to them instead?

And my second question is; how would you feel if I told you the people God was asking to change included rapists?

atrcts Fri 02-Aug-13 11:17:48

lol @ Claig

I wasn't asking for example, cheeky!

headinhands Fri 02-Aug-13 11:22:25

If you believe the rapist should not be forgiven, what would you do to them instead?

It's for the victim(s) (and buy that I mean the victims family who will undoubtedly suffer) to forgive the rapist but seeing as she's dead she personally can't. It's up to the established authority to apprehend, punish, prevent and rehabilitate the rapist.

And my second question is; how would you feel if I told you the people God was asking to change included rapists?

Sorry don't understand what you mean?

atrcts Fri 02-Aug-13 11:22:40

All of this talk about God having no morals and not being able to trust Him....

It reminds me of the sort of relative of a patient who wants to be in the operating theatre to peer over the shoulder of the surgeon, questioning their every cut.

You can't be an expert in everything in this life, and we don't bother to try! Is there anyone on this thread who knows how to make a rocket and navigate to Mars AS WELL AS complete 12 hour neurosurgery AS WELL AS speaking 15 different languages?

Thought not! Most of us struggle to put up a tent in the recommended half hour timescale!

But yet when it comes to God, some people are trying to elevate themselves above His wisdom and it just won't work.

Have I ever let myself down, or been wrong? What a stupid question, of course I have, and I take full responsibility for those occasions. I don't expect anyone else to take the blame, and I certainly don't expect anyone else to forgive my transgressions or wipe the slate clean, other than those people that I have actually hurt. I don't believe in universal "forgiveness". The only person who is responsible for putting my mistakes right is ME, not anybody else, and certainly not a deity.

I find the whole concept of "forgiveness of sins" to be mostly of appeal to those who are naive and lacking in self-responsibility, and who prefer things to be very simplistic. Refer to my earlier point about all of us being at different stages of spiritual maturity.

atrcts Fri 02-Aug-13 11:25:24

*And my second question is; how would you feel if I told you the people God was asking to change included rapists?

Sorry don't understand what you mean?*

The people who are being warned in the verses where they get a chance to change first.

What if these people included rapists.

Question 1. Would you punish them or let them go?
Question 2. What would YOUR morals allow you to do to deal with them satisfactorily?

atrcts Fri 02-Aug-13 11:26:37

* worldgonecrazy - Have I ever let myself down, or been wrong? What a stupid question, of course I have*

Yet you trust in and rely upon yourself?

Seems shaky ground to me. Especially over such an important issue.

But yet when it comes to God, some people are trying to elevate themselves above His wisdom and it just won't work

Errr, no.

Some of us either don't believe in him, or don't believe he is particularly wise, or worthy of elevation.

atrcts Fri 02-Aug-13 11:29:41

or don't believe he is particularly wise, or worthy of elevation.

THAT, my friend, is considering yourself elevated over God.

Seems shaky ground to me. Especially over such an important issue.

What important issue? The only person I have to look in the eye each morning is me, and like I said, I am the only person responsible for my mistakes.

I have absolutely zero belief in the Christian idea of paradise/heaven, so I'm not particularly bothered about ensuring I get to some place that doesn't exist. Especially as that would require me compromising my morals which tell me that worshiping a nasty despot god is wrong. Why would I go against my own moral compass to achieve something I don't actually believe in? That would be really stupid.

THAT, my friend, is considering yourself elevated over God.

That MY FRIEND(!) is considering god to be irrelevant and neither elevated or beneath. It's like saying I consider myself elevated over the yeti, or beneath Bob Smith at Acacia Avenue.

Can I just say I am loving this thread. It's really making me think about my real life relationship with those who follow the Biblical god. There is a definite marked difference in spiritual maturity between those who want the black/white approach, i.e. believe in Jesus/God or go to hell, and those who are actually open to the way that the divine spirit touches all of those who are of that nature.

It's interesting because my 3 year old likes things very black and white and definite. It's only as we come to adulthood that we realise that life has many shades in between.

samandi Fri 02-Aug-13 11:43:54

Hm, as a lurker I can't decide whether I am loving this thread or not. The viewpoints put across by atrcts are pretty scary. To think that hundreds of thousands of people also think like that ... I guess it's no wonder you get people doing horrendous things in the mistaken belief that some god or other wants them to.

As for:

*or don't believe he is particularly wise, or worthy of elevation.

THAT, my friend, is considering yourself elevated over God.*

LMAO!!!!!!!!!

worldgonecrazy and headinhands - keep up the good work :-)

headinhands Fri 02-Aug-13 12:11:34

*Question 1. Would you punish them or let them go?
Question 2. What would YOUR morals allow you to do to deal with them satisfactorily?*

Firstly I'm not in a position to offer anyone eternal life. My morals would say punish, prevent and rehabilitate the rapist. It's not for me to forgive him because he didn't rape me.

claig Fri 02-Aug-13 12:18:29

But the beautiful message of Christianity is redemption, that God can forgive your sins, so that you can start again with a clean slate if you repent.

claig Fri 02-Aug-13 12:19:27

Even the lowest down dog of a person has hope that they can change, be forgiven and be loved by the Almighty.

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