in thinking it is getting impossible to discuss the welfare state on here any more

(262 Posts)
size20knickersandfatter Thu 25-Jul-13 07:26:40

Disclaimer: I am all for the welfare state. I firmly believe in the NHS, and have no desire for a return to workhouses or other such draconian matters.

However, it seems to be that ever since the Tories started making cuts, it's impossible to even question on here the morality or the fairness of the system. I'll admit it - I don't think the system was fair, at all.

I earn a very average salary. As a result I am only slightly better off than I would be on benefits and considerably worse off when my childcare costs are deducted. It's difficult not to feel resentful when you're in that position.

- I don't believe throwing money around will mean any less children will "go to bed hungry."

- I don't believe benefits should be more lucrative than paid work. Ever. And at the moment, they are. I think the fact that they ever were is disgraceful.

- I think the welfare state is a crutch in a crisis. Disability excepted, it is not a walking stick through life.

I also know there will be hundreds of yawns, this AGAIN, do I want children to starve, I want a return to the workhouse actually no I want the poor shot actually I want them deported ha ha ha what a bitch what a cow what a horrible person. Oh and she hasn't mentioned widescreen TVs LOL.

No, actually, I'm none of the above, I'm just an ordinary person struggling to make ends meet myself. It's very easy to be lofty and high handed and sentimental when you're on board the gravy train yourself. As it is, I don't want benefits to disappear but I don't know just one piss taker, I know several, and don't believe I'm not typical in this.

Welfare - benefits - cost a FORTUNE and people are deluding themselves if they think they don't. The cost of other services doesn't mean welfare isn't a massive cut. It's like saying "that holiday is cheap, look how expensive it is to spend a fortnight in Disneyland." The fact is, it's unsustainable.

I'm happy for people to be given the support they need but at the moment I think some people do think "give people on benefits all the money they like and it will end poverty."

It won't.

Crumbledwalnuts Thu 25-Jul-13 17:21:31

Or rather, they contradict each other.

Crumbledwalnuts Thu 25-Jul-13 17:25:08

zero hours contracts mean that any lender looks at what you're contracted to earn.

Even if you've earned 50-K on a zero hours contract for the last 3 years (nb I haven't in case you're wondering) they won't look at it for a mortgage. They look at what you're contracted to earn, which may be 50 pounds a month or something.

If you're self employed they look at your last years of earnings. I would say that needs to change very quickly.

Crumbledwalnuts Thu 25-Jul-13 17:32:28

Can I just give you an example about MPs' pay.

It's currently recommended that they get about a 10pc pay rise. It's completely outrageous. However the wealthier MPs will be able to turn it down and look good. The poorer ones, not so much. They might not be able to afford to turn it down - and they'll look greedy. Assuming there are more wealthy tories than Labour MPs, the "looking good" will be heavily Conservative biased.

I don't think that's fair.

WafflyVersatile Thu 25-Jul-13 17:50:20

WTF is a neutral discussion?

Crumbledwalnuts Thu 25-Jul-13 17:54:38

One without swearing?

Whothefuckfarted Thu 25-Jul-13 18:01:44

Bollocks to that, impossible not to swear with you around crumbled. It's like banging your head against a fucking twatty brick wall!

Crumbledwalnuts Thu 25-Jul-13 18:04:35

Don't strain yourself thinking love.smile

Whothefuckfarted Thu 25-Jul-13 18:12:58

biscuit

grumpyoldbat Thu 25-Jul-13 18:15:28

Please don't be patronising crumble just because we are poor does not make us thick. Also despite what the Government would have you believe we are still human beings.

Isabeller Thu 25-Jul-13 18:28:04

As you are willing to put your head above the parapet on this issue I would be very interested to know if you have worked out how much better off you are (taking account of pension entitlements etc you may be building up and the enhanced value of any charitable donations you make?)

There are so many financial advantages to working ie someone else is usually responsible for maintaining the temperature of your working time environment. Me DD and her bf sometimes ended up with free food to take home when there had been a conference at work which effectively meant a couple of meals not needing to be paid for etc. Even being included in social events of work friends who are slightly better off than you can in effect be a financial advantage.

It isn't that hard to work out your benefit entitlements using online calculators, I hope you don't mind sharing this information.

Crumbledwalnuts Thu 25-Jul-13 18:47:28

I was only patronising to the above poster because of the language and general horribleness. Otherwise I haven't been, I've just put arguments and links forward. Straw man grumpy. Nobody has suggested you are thick and nobody has suggested you aren't a human being.

pointythings Thu 25-Jul-13 21:36:48

I just keep wondering why the hell childcare isn't tax deductible. It would really help a lot of people on low incomes and a lot of people on middle incomes as well.

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