Note: Please bear in mind that whilst this topic does canvass opinions, it is not a fight club. You may disagree with other posters but we do ask you please to stick to our Talk Guidelines and to be civil. We don't allow personal attacks or troll-hunting. Do please report any. Thanks, MNHQ.

To not understand the assault/internals threads?

(464 Posts)
GingerJulep Sun 21-Jul-13 00:04:18

I've never had one so am really struggling to understand how so many women on here (NOT aimed specifically at the other poster on this page, there are lots in different sections!) manage to have internal examinations before/during/after birth that they say they didn't consent to/asked to be stopped?

I mean that physically, don't they have the option to just shut legs/take feet out of stirrups/--kick HCP in face--?

Nearest I've ever come (so far, lucky me!) was someone trying to take blood suddenly... I made an automatic physical reaction (big flinch/jump) and they simply couldn't do it until we'd had a quick cat.

So, how much more difficult is it to avoid/stop internal exams if you really want to IYSWIM?

organiccarrotcake Tue 13-Aug-13 19:57:48

Bump

organiccarrotcake Tue 13-Aug-13 16:37:48

I've messaged you, confuddled, as would really like to chat. smile

Jux Thu 08-Aug-13 20:06:23

I avoided my local hospital for dd's birth, as when I'd tried to talk to the mw about my birthplan - no whale music! - the response was "oh we don't need to bother with that" while slinging it on the floor. I told dh I'd rather give birth in a field, and arranged to go camping 200 miles away, for the fortnight round my due date.

The hospital itself had for years had a reputation as a miserable place (accurate) despite many multi-million pound refurbishments etc. Staff were treated pretty badly, an attitude which was often passed on to patients.

I didn't actually give birth in the field, btw, but in the large hospital near the field. Where the mws were lovely.

I am appalled at what I have read on this thread (I have no doubt that if I hadn't gone camping, I would be among your number), and I take my hat off to all of you. Your endurance, your courage, all of you, are humbling. Thank you for telling your stories.

organiccarrotcake Thu 08-Aug-13 15:06:45

And these: aims.org.uk/Journal/Vol22No1/VEsDiagnostic.htm

www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2393/10/54

This might be really useful to those who felt violated by examinations publications.nice.org.uk/intrapartum-care-cg55/guidance#normal-labour-first-stage

This link is really more North American focused as we don't do cervical checks antenatally here particularly, as routine anyway, but may be useful to some readers: www.nurturingheartsbirthservices.com/blog/?p=50

organiccarrotcake Thu 08-Aug-13 13:57:53

This might be useful too, a free downloadable booklet on making a complaint about maternity care www.aims.org.uk/pubs.htm#complaints

organiccarrotcake Wed 07-Aug-13 10:33:00

You might be interested in this organisation: www.aims.org.uk/, Association for Improvements in the Maternity Services.

AIMS campaigns on a number of fronts, supporting women in their childbirth choices (whatever they are) by helping them to get the information that they need to make informed choices. AIMS campaigns for respectful care which is woman centred, and supports women who are having difficulties with her care givers in one way or another.

confuddledDOTcom Fri 02-Aug-13 14:46:29

I've just been playing with the forums, come and see what you think.

confuddledDOTcom Thu 01-Aug-13 13:22:13

We've had pushing 2000 hits now, but only one story and 14 likes. We need to make the site busy if we're going to go anywhere, so please keep sharing, liking and posting!

Shiraztastic Wed 31-Jul-13 21:50:34

Who farted, is there any chance he might have been pushing back a cervical lip? Sometimes one bit doesn't quite dilate as much, see here.

confuddledDOTcom Wed 31-Jul-13 16:17:29

Thanks Mylinh smile

confuddledDOTcom Wed 31-Jul-13 16:13:03

Thank you Lucy! Please do come and join us. I'd love to do anything I can to help. It took me a long time to realise I didn't have the PND I was diagnosed with and to talk about the fear of my baby being hurt because of me (not deliberately, but I thought I'd accidentally hurt her and I didn't think people would see the difference). The birth it came from it didn't need to, they were too scared I was blame finding to tell me the truth of the birth when all I wanted was to close the gap of a GA. As a doula and a BT survivor I've since found this is a common theme with GAs.

Thank you too farewell!

MylinhMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 31-Jul-13 16:09:48

Hi everyone

We thought you might find this page on legal rights during pregnancy and childbirth helpful. It has guidance and answers to some of the most commonly-asked questions on MN threads over the years, as well as details of the excellent Birthrights (a human rights organisation for child-bearing women). Do take a look and share, and feel free to leave feedback on this thread or contact Birthrights directly via their free advice service.

Thanks, Mylinh MNHQ

LucyBTA Wed 31-Jul-13 16:02:05

Dear all - I posted on the other thread (I'm Lucy Jolin, volunteer press person for the Birth Trauma Association) but just to say a/well done all of you, the more people who make a fuss about these issues the better b/your site looks great c/have tweeted a link to it and to this thread and d/our website is http://www.birthtraumaassociation.org.uk and we're on Twitter as @BirthTrauma if anyone would like any advice/info. This thread makes such horrifying but sadly not surprising reading.

Some of you have asked what you can do to help. Aside from your own campaign, of course, the BTA is ALWAYS looking for women who are willing to tell their birth stories in the media. We get loads of requests from media every week. We're also an entirely volunteer-led organisation, with no funding from anyone apart from our lovely supporters, so any donations of any size are incredibly welcome. Hope nobody minds me posting this - no intention to hijack! As several of you have pointed out, awareness of birth trauma is still pretty low so I tend to leap on any opportunity to let women know it exists. And do drop me a line if anyone has any queries - my email's on the BTA website.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. I can't believe it. I came back to this post to see if anyone else had posted and look what's happened! I've signed in and posted my story on the website. You are amazing! I really hope it is possible to make labour better for other women. Some of the things I have read on this thread made me so sad and angry. It just should not be happening.

confuddledDOTcom Wed 31-Jul-13 12:12:44

953
TOTAL PAGEVIEWS

I'm sure a few are from me but not that many!

Glad you got in ICBINEG!

ICBINEG Wed 31-Jul-13 09:44:15

Site looks great!

So happy I got in...will sign up tonight when I will have time to post stories etc.

Whothefuckfarted Tue 30-Jul-13 22:30:52

My first sign of labour was my waters breaking. Took a few hours for contractions to start. I had 3 internal 'checks' during my labour. One when I first arrived at hospital to be told I was at 3cm and would be able to stay in rather than sent home. Lovely midwife who calmed me right down.

The second was done at 5cm again no problem, bit uncomfortable but that was it.

The third however after reading all this... I'm not sure what it was. If anyone has any idea what was done to me I'd love a heads up.. thinking about it now I thought it was just a lot more painful because I was fully dilated.. but I'm now wondering what the heck he was doing up there.

I'd been in labour for 21 hours, the midwife called in a male (doctor?) I'd had a LOT of gas and air and was very sleepy due to a shot of pethidine about 5hrs previous. (they'd asked me to move from birth pool to bed as they wanted to give me hormones via drip to speed me up, said pethidine would help as it would mean stronger and more painful contractions)

Anyway I was under the impression that he was checking I was at 10cm so I could start pushing.. It REALLY hurt, I just asked my DH about it and what I said. He says that I DID ask the doctor to stop and he didn't stop. He says he was elbow deep in me. I remember trying to move away. Impossible. Once he had done I do remember him saying 'get rid of that gas and air now' then turned to the midwife and said 'she can push now'.

I don't feel violated (or didn't till now!) I actually loved my birth experience to be fair, I pushed baby out in 40 mins after that. So anyone any idea what he was doing?

confuddledDOTcom Tue 30-Jul-13 20:56:29
Itchywoolyjumper Tue 30-Jul-13 20:55:45

New thread started here:

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1815683-To-want-us-all-to-be-treated-like-human-beings-while-we-are-in-labour

confuddledDOTcom Tue 30-Jul-13 20:38:36

Looks good Itchy!

confuddledDOTcom Tue 30-Jul-13 20:37:23

Mine was traumatic because it was a crash and a GA, but mine is extreme, others can tell stories of CS that are less extreme. It's more likely really because it confuses the body.

I have had 3 VBs and only had stitches once. If you tear naturally, unless it's a very bad tear leaving it to heal itself is better than stitches and better than being cut (which is why most women want to avoid instrumental delivery). There are lots of things you can do to improve your outcomes, keeping mobile and active during labour, not lying down etc. It may be worth you talking to a Supervisor of Midwives or a Doula.

Itchywoolyjumper Tue 30-Jul-13 20:34:19

How this for the new thread?:

Some of you might remember the internal examination thread which ended up with so many women telling the stories of the poor experiences at the hands of health care professionals during their pregnancies, labours and in the post natal period.
Many women spoke of lack of consent, poor communication and lack of respect from those who they should have been able to trust in their most vulnerable hours.
One poster spoke of being held down to be stitched because the pain relief had not yet taken hold and she was writhing in pain, while an other described being made to feel like "the dead meat around the foetus".
Its 2013, these and all the stories like them on the original thread should have been consigned to the history books long ago but instead we are being made to live them.

In response to this some of us are trying to start a campaign to bring this type of treatment to an end.
We have three broad aims:

1) to help empower and support women making complaints against HCPs involved in their obstetric care.

2) to help educate HCPs to examine their practice and improve their treatment of pregnant, labouring and post natal women.

3) to lobby to bring about legislation to protect women against obstetric violence.

Some amazing posters have started a website from where we hope to make a start on these aims, you can join us at:

http://maternity-rights.webs.com/

Buddhagirl Tue 30-Jul-13 19:44:01

Oh no, can I ask what was traumatic? I think I'll Google chances of stitches. Ugh it's like a nightmare.

confuddledDOTcom Tue 30-Jul-13 19:24:04

A CS doesn't guarantee anything. My BT came from my first CS. Not all natural births end in stitches, my last one the mw said it didn't even look like I'd give birth!

Buddhagirl Tue 30-Jul-13 19:10:52

Fan job! Fanjo

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