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To think that no-one should go to Dubai

(250 Posts)
Sallyingforth Sat 20-Jul-13 14:42:05

while they treat women like this...

Jailed for being raped.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23381448

FrogsGoWhat Tue 15-Oct-13 19:41:48

Zombie thread

kim147 Tue 15-Oct-13 18:42:47

muschima

Well I hope your daughter isn't gay or trans as they'll soon be banned from working over there if this proposal goes through

www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/11/gulf-countries-medical-checks-transgender-expats

LayMizzRarb Tue 15-Oct-13 18:18:57

I assume that none of you buy clothes in Primark, Next, and a hundred other uk shops? Are you aware of the conditions that factory workers face? And I hope you are all posting on British made laptops/phones; have you seen the suicide rates in the factory that makes iPhones?
If you are, then you are in a position to make a judgement.
In my mind, Thailand is far worse than Dubai. They have a government that refuse to do anything about the sex trade because it brings in so much in tourism revenue.
We were out there for quite a while about 20 years ago, and went back about 4 years ago. It was shocking how in-your-face the sex industry is. The number of times children (quote " I sixteen reely mister...") approached my husband in bars and restaurants if I went to the loo or disappeared for 5 minutes. 2 young girls even approached us on the beach offering sex.
Beautiful country, vile lax laws.

Muschima1 Tue 15-Oct-13 17:15:39

Sorry to have different view than most of you. My daughter lives and works in Dubai. It is a much safer place than London or any other big city in the UK. No drunks, no druggies, no public violence, no aggression - yes - stern laws, but it is a civilised society where a single woman feels safe.

Mumoftwoyoungkids Wed 14-Aug-13 19:05:14

Oh - and slightly amused at the local council comment. My dad worked for his local council for over 40 years. He was regularly contacted by firms trying to get him to work in the ME.

Mumoftwoyoungkids Wed 14-Aug-13 19:01:44

I refuse to visit a country that has the death penalty. (So no - I have never been to the USA.) That is a line in the sand for me that I have not and am determined to never cross. So UAE is a country I am unlikely to see.

All countries have human rights abuses but there are degrees of this and I try to ensure that I do not visit those that have significant institutionalised abuses. (For example I refused to go on the really lovely holiday to Turkey that dh once found.)

It's not much but it is something.

celticclan Wed 14-Aug-13 13:38:58

I don't intend to visit Dubai. I
don't want to line the pockets of a country that treats women like this.

It never makes sense to me when women are treated as criminals when they are raped. What do they think women should do? It makes me think that perhaps they believe women have some kind of supernatural power that can fend off attackers.

jeniferroselyn Wed 14-Aug-13 13:20:30

that was very bad news. but if you see every coin has two sides..dubai is nice place for tourists and for adventure like camping, sky diving and living in Dubai..
http://www.askexplorer.com

PlatinumStart Tue 23-Jul-13 18:47:30

Skylar I wasn't attributing comments about other Islamic countries to you.

I am confused as to what you mean by classifying people due to nationality, though. Virtually every country does this, treating its own nationals better than visitors and non national residents.

If your referring to active discrimination of minority groups of nationals within a country then I guess you can rule out Thailand, Egypt (again), Turkey and India to name a few, with both Australia and the US having a fairly potted history when it comes to treatment of their indigenous populations.

Anyway whilst I am interested in the concept of ethical tourism this thread I get the impression that this thread is simply about Dubai bashing.

skylerwhite Tue 23-Jul-13 18:05:27

Israel would not be a holiday destination for me, no.

Sallyingforth Tue 23-Jul-13 17:15:18

skylerwhite You won't be going to Israel then.

digerd Tue 23-Jul-13 16:33:56

As far as Codeine is concerned, a girl had hers confiscated by customs in Greece. In Germany it cannot be bought over the counter, only on Drs prescription.hmm

skylerwhite Tue 23-Jul-13 16:01:53

I haven't said anything about "other Islamic" countries. I personally draw the line on a system where people are classified according to their "nationality" or colour of their skin.

PlatinumStart Tue 23-Jul-13 10:22:33

Skylar why on earth would I have a problem with ethical tourism? what a bizarre question. I am however generally confused as to the level if vitriol towards the UAE and "other Islamic" countries.

thisis apologies I missed that - the answers to the question that a few people asked were few and far between, but thank you for answering - I will try and find your answer. But no I don't think it's weird that you don't want to visit places with a poor record on women's rights but what I personally do find strange is the number of people who will denigrate the UAE but happily holiday in other places that are on many views equally as bad.

So for example Egypt has an appalling record of treatment of women, domestic abuse and rape is commonplace and having worked in both UAE and Egypt, the latter is far more dangerous for and hostile to women, yet it's an incredibly popular tourist destination.

Equally, HR abuses, including use of death penalty, in US is at least as bad as the abuses in UAE.

Someone mentioned Vietnam, which has an appalling record relating to their poor, displacement and the "slave trade" is alive and well.

I am fortunate enough (or not - if you take the common view) to have lived and worked in all these places and it never ceases to amaze me how people appear determined to overlook the worst kinds of abuses if there is a "cultural trade off". It comes across as the worst type of judgementsl hypocrisy which is why I am genuinely interested to know - on that scale of bad - worse where people draw the line.

I said where I was going on holiday some pages/days back.

do you believe all countries are equal on human rights - or that some are worse than others?

I believe some states are worse than others. Some are really bad. Some don't fit in with my way of thinking especially on women's issues. I don't want to go to these places for a holiday. Work - maybe? Campaigning - maybe, but to sit in their luxury hotels, no. Does that sound so bizarre to you?

And, as Squoosh said, not just that, I can honestly say, hand on heart, even if Dubai were the most liberal democratic state in the world, I still wouldn't fancy it.

FreudiansSlipper Mon 22-Jul-13 15:44:54

i have been to Tunisia (lived and worked there), Vietnam and Cambodia. Tunisia is a very different culture a poorer country that does not have the same mentality of having people work under them. Vietnam and Cambodia are both very poor countries again you do not see people treated the same way

i am not saying that these countries do not have governments that are corrupt and other problems with the way people are treated (Cambodia has a terrible problem with men who abuse children going there to take advantage of very poor and often desperate people) but the attitude that money can by people is not cultural sadly in many very wealthy countries it has become that way. it is common in many parts of asia to have servants or maids/cooks even if you are not that wealthy but you do not buy these people they work for you

skylerwhite Mon 22-Jul-13 15:30:27

Do you have a problem with ethical tourism, Platinum?

squoosh Mon 22-Jul-13 15:28:32

Well I was in West Cork a few weeks ago and will be heading to France for 10 days in August.

The civil rights issue isn't the only thing that puts me off Dubai. I think it looks like a boring holiday destination, too new, too hot, too shopping focussed, too full of footballers.

PlatinumStart Mon 22-Jul-13 15:13:30

And I'm still interested to know where people do holiday. thisisaeupamism what about you? Dubai the dictatorship is obviously off limits but where is acceptable?

Are (were) Syria, Egypt, china, Tunisia, Vietnam, Cambodia all also off the list? Or what about countries with significant human rights issues?

I'm genuinely interested to know where those who extol the vitriol for the UAE deam to be an acceptabie destination.

Perhaps unsurprisingly the cast majority of the haters gave little to say...

PlatinumStart Mon 22-Jul-13 14:55:52

cory it is illegal to hold an employees passport. Some break that law, many do not.

Sallyingforth Mon 22-Jul-13 13:33:34

The great news is that she has been pardoned

So after all the negative international publicity, the victim has been 'pardoned' - which means she was guilty but let off.

"The man she accused of raping her - a colleague - has also been pardoned, a Norwegian official has said."

Is that justice?

BlingBang Mon 22-Jul-13 12:01:40

Sugar, what do you think will make it more stressful?

Eddiethehorse Mon 22-Jul-13 10:57:37

I dont keep my nanny's passport......

SugarMiceInTheRain Mon 22-Jul-13 10:53:25

YANBU, one of my oldest friends is imminently moving out there with her DH (for his work, though she plans to work there too). I think it'll be much more stressful than she realises and I wouldn't be at all surprised if she comes back with her DS before her DH's minimum 3 year stint is up. She's already on at me to visit her while she's living there and I keep making non-committal noises and thinking to myself hmm

cory Mon 22-Jul-13 10:53:14

DeepPurple Sun 21-Jul-13 15:43:52

"*Maids are "owned" by families to the extent that they are not in possession of their own passport.* The reason for this is that they are being sponsored by the family and if the maid was to do anything wrong the sponsor can be fined, imprisoned or thrown out of the country. Most maids make around £300-£600 per month. They also have their visa costs paid, a month holiday each year which most use in one block to visit their home country. Flights to and from their home country are paid by the sponsor and they are also provided accommodation and a food allowance. £300 a month doesn't sound that bad when you consider the overall package really. What do we pay au pairs in the uk? Considering a three bed house costs around £30k a year to rent, a private room in a house is good value. Many maids own several properties in their own countries as working in Dubai gives them enough money to do that."

Can't you see that it is your first sentence here that makes the whole difference?

If you are an au pair in the UK and discover that your employer expects you to go to bed with him as part of your au pair duties, you can get out and go home. If you are a maid in Dubai, he has your passport.

Ditto if you find he expects you to do twice as many hours as your contract or beats you if the coffee isn't just right.

Most of my friends were au-pairs when I was young. If a family seemed at all dodgy, they got out.

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