year 6 leavers do/Prom(81 Posts)
Last night I was horrified and pleasantly surprised all at the same time.....depositing my daughter at her year 6 leavers disco, me, looking moderately flustered and slightly shabby from work. my little girl, scrubbed clean and a pretty, long summer dress, favourite shoes and hair usual bunch, with added bow, when looking at the girls crowded round Mr P their fab teacher... Several girls you could tell....had spent hours....having hair done, nails, accessories etc.. but good god.....what were they wearing?...expensive, silk/satin strapless(what have they got to actually hold it up?)AND extremely short ball gowns with 3inch...strappy heels???!! It was something like sex in the City gone Bugsy...WRONG....sooo WRONG!!!
needless to say I stared round to see how many of these unfortunate 'children' there actually were...and breathed a huge sigh of relief....3mmmm possibly 4 the rest of the girls looked pretty much the same as mine....happy excited 11yr olds going to a party, so therefore happy to reflect...the west country has not become so horrifically Americanised yet, though there is a party (privately organised) tomorrow that apparently is going to involve....stretched Limos etc...oh and parents are to attend with their little ones, whether they want to or not......I conveniently lost this invite!
My DD has her prom/disco/dance/whatever else you want to call it as its pretty much the same thing! in the next few days. It is in the hall, will involve snacks and party games, kids stuff
Although its themed she will be in a very pretty dress, she may or may not wear heels and glitter makeup. She will also have her hair "done", I "do" my hair every morning by the way
I don't know of any local "prom" that has limos, fake tans and false nails. There will always be a small minority of girls and boys who do them selves up to the nines, they want to be like pop stars and red carpet actors not hookers.
And it was an extreme example, I agree. It's just that it's not so long ago that high heels and fake nails would have been thought of as extreme.
Can't remember how high the PW boots were. She was a tall girl and they were definitely over the knee. Sort of stretchy.
i feel a bit mean because perhaps she WAS wearing her sister's clothes.
Really? Did you mean knee boots or actual Pretty Woman thigh boots?
Yes - tho it was at a disco - like the OP's daughter's leavers' do.
Perhaps calling it a prom might even raise the tone.
Maybe it's regional. London.
thyme I would think that black thigh high boots and hot pants is not a good look at any age and i'd be surprised to see an 11 yo at a prom or anywhere else wearing that - have you seen this irl? If so i'd imagine that falls very much outside the 'normal range' of anyone's experience.
See I don't think high heels connote 'adult' and 'sexual' I think they connote 'falling over' and 'sprained ankle'
I do think you are overthinking this a bit, but I feel the OP may have put a spin on her observations to sensationalise, I mean "hair done" could be a french plait, "nails" glitter nail polish is surely fine? "accessories" an evening bag? What a scandal! "expensive silk/satin strapless dresses" well I doubt there were very many strapless ones but even with that bit is this kind of thing really worth getting worked up about? As long as it doesn't fall off and is comfy what's the problem? I've already said I think high shoes are silly but it's more for safety reasons than sexy reasons
Faux - I don't have a picture, but what would you say about black patent thigh boots with hotpants? A bit OTT for 11?
Trying on her older sister's clothes in her bedroom, experimenting with makeup at home - fair enough. But letting her out in public to a school event?
No eccentrica, my last post wasn't aimed at you.
It wasn't aimed at anyone.
1. I'm sure 11 year olds could equally have pole dancing parties in an innocent way (I remember a thread about this a while back) but that doesn't mean it's something parents would necessarily be comfortable with. Anyway, I remember being 11 and it is far from an innocent age in any sense. Perhaps some mums have deliberate amnesia when their daughters reach that age...
2. I don't have pictures, I was responding to the OP's post in which she described it as "having hair done, nails, accessories etc.. ...expensive, silk/satin strapless(what have they got to actually hold it up?)AND extremely short ball gowns with 3inch...strappy heels???!! It was something like sex in the City gone Bugsy...WRONG....sooo WRONG!!!"
3. I have been accused of being some sort of pervert for finding it distasteful to dress children up like that. I was saying i think it's more distasteful to do it in the first place.
"Clearly there are parameters and I don't allow her high heels for example, but if she wants to wear leopard print leggings instead of stripey ones why not?"
Indeed, why not? Not sure why you think I disagree with you here. I would also be fine with leopard print leggings but would draw the line at high heels. I think high heels clearly connote 'adult' and 'sexual' and young girls wearing them look either very silly, very wrong or both.
It's all about parameters isn't it? I can't make my daughter wear anything she doesn't want to NOW, so yesterday I let her wear bright green shorts with a pretty white dress and my big floppy white sunhat. No harm done. I drew the line though at a winter scarf, hat and gloves which she wanted to wear (in 30+ degrees). I'm the adult and better able to judge than her what is and isn't suitable. Surely that's the point?
Do away with the whole Prom thing altogether for under-16s, that's what I say.
It all causes too much of a fuss! What's wrong with a disco, where the kids are free to wear what they like without any feeling pressured to 'dress up'? God knows they'll get enough of that peer pressure to do so when they're older. We don't need to be facilitating that.
Missy I meant that it was confusing and difficult enough for me as an 11-year-old who could have passed for 15 or 16, without then being dressed up as an adult woman with all that implies. Not that I expect children to be sexually harassed at a primary school event.
I am far from 'hysterical' - I'm just posting in between toddler and work demands, and it's very annoying to be deliberately misrepresented as it means wasting time 'defending' things I didn't say in the first place, and having the points I do make ignored.
I did not 'attribute the word prostitute to a child', I said i think it's wrong to dress children like prostitutes. That's what microskirts, heavy make up, fake nails etc. imply. Like I said, could equally be WAGs or the cast of TOWIE or whatever. I guess looking like a prostitute is fashionable if you're under 25.
My daughter will be 3 in September and yes, I'm sure there will be lots for me to learn along the way. But I am still able to form and explain my opinion on the OP's post without necessarily having first hand experience as a mum.
(Is Netto's last post aimed at me? I hope not because I can't for the life of me see what its relevance is!)
Hula - your daughter looks lovely. But I don't think the clothes her classmates have chosen are the same as what the OP is talking about. They look like what I'd expect 11 year olds to be wearing.
But in some schools, it really is strapless prom dresses, fake tans, hair extensions, high heels and micro-skirts. And I've heard of quite a few where there's been a big split in the PTA about it.
1. 11 year olds are innocent. Having periods/boobs developing does not make them not 'innocent' at age 11 loss of innocence is only caused by abuse surely?
2. Please can I see an example of these styles designed purely to attract men? I am seeing party dresses (some with short skirts/strapless) and party sandals with heels, a bit of sparkly make-up and nails. I am not seeing suspenders, stripper heels, bum skimming skirts, hot pants, false eyelashes etc...
3. Not sure what you mean exactly here.
And good luck to you trying to make your DD wear your choice of clothes after the age of about 6, my DD is now 8 and has very clear ideas of what she wants to wear and whilst I would not choose all her choices I am glad she wants to express herself. Clearly there are parameters and I don't allow her high heels for example, but if she wants to wear leopard print leggings instead of stripey ones why not? She likes them because they are animal print and she likes animals, not because they might be considered more racy on an adult.
Netto your dd had an evening wearing a strapless dress and heels and now you allow her to have a male friend sleep over
She is clearly dooooooooomed.
Is this a good time to tell you that one of DD's friends will be staying over next week, in her room.
He is a boy
DD will likely wear her usual clothes of something with holes in and flip flops, definitely no impressing going on there.
They will spend their time giggling, eating pringles and chocolate, and making silly Youtube videos.
To be honest, you are getting so hysterical, and attributing words like 'prostitute' to children, nothing about your opinions would surprise me anymore.
I can't directly quote as I'm using the app just now, but your first point something like 'I had enough problems with men when I was wearing age appropriate clothes' then something like 'Thank God my Mother didn't dress me in short skirts and fake nails'.
If you didn't mean you would have been harrassed more for wearing a short skirt (ie blaming the wearers of short skirts and not the ones who think its fair game to harrass the wearers) then I wholeheartedly apologise. I can't think of what else you meant by it though.
I see your dd is 3, I guess when my oldest dd was that young I may have had views on things I didn't really have a clue about either, but parenthood is a learning curve and we all get shocks along the way. I shall look forward to reading your posts in 8 years time
oh and perhaps I should have said dressed by their mother, father, guardian or other person in a position of parental responsibility before someone decides to get worked up about sexism or something similarly off the point.
WTF are you talking about, victim blaming? No, it doesn't. What a load of cock. Quote the relevant bit, where I blame any victim for anything, then.
I never said for one moment that the girls are doing it 'to attract men'. Could you do me the courtesy of reading what i've said, if you're going to engage in discussion?
it's bloody obvious that they are doing it to conform and to feel grown up. Which apparently can only be interpreted these days as dressing like someone off TOWIE.
I said they are dressed by their mothers in a style which mimics adult women trying to appeal sexually to men. That's what's wrong with it. That is not the same thing as saying the girls are trying to attract men.
Did you really think, when I said it was disgusting to dress 3-year-olds like that, that I was suggesting the 3-year-olds are trying to attract male attention??!
I find the fuss they now make over year 11 leaving parties weird enough. The copying of American high school traditions seems to be fairly recent, we had a sixth form ball in my day, there was none of this 'prom' nonsense.
My DS is about to leave year 6 and his school just have a disco at school in the evening. I think they'd be utterly bemused if any of the children turned up covered in fake tan and riding in limos. And to be honest I would be a bit at strapless dresses and heels on children that young too.
DD and her friends dress up for themselves. There are no boys at most of their school events/parties as it is a girls school, so not even trying to dress up to look nce for boys, it is just for themselves.
Predatory men who are interested in 11yo girls will be interested in them regardless of their clothes
Of course not all 11y are undeveloped. Many are developing well. My DD definitely is and she is not alone at school. 4 of them have started their periods (out of 11) and only a couple still dont wear a bra.
But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to dress up, especially in a safe environment where everyone is looking out for them. It isn't even as if at these parties (or proms) they are walking the streets or in a position to be getting into bother - they are with teachers, parents and other known adults.
My point (that you are deliberately missing) is that they are doing it to feel a bit grown up, not to attract men.
And, yes, now you mention it your post did have a bit of victim blaming going on.
Missy nice try to twist it into a case of 'victim blaming'. Perhaps you could respond to one of the points I actually made, rather than something I didn't say? This is nothing to do with sexual harassment.
The point I was making there, which you (deliberately?) misconstrued, was that it's nonsense to portray all 11-year-olds as prepubescent, flat-chested children who are playing 'dress up' in an innocent way. Whether they like it or not, many girls of that age are already starting to look like women (and may be extremely self-conscious about it).
My primary point, as made multiple times above, is that I think it's wrong and disturbing to dress children of any age in a style which mimics adult women trying to blatantly appeal sexually to men.
TBH I am really astonished that that appears to be a controversial opinion here.
I think you just proved that if some twat is going to sexually harrass someone they will do so regardless of what they are wearing, so I'm not really sure of your point.
In that situation the blame lies firmly at the door of the person and their own twisted thoughts, not at the door of the victim of the harrassment and what they are wearing.
DD has very small heels on that photo - but she has had higher, esp when she could wear my shoes. Now her feet are too big to pinch them, nd the ones she has on in the pics were bought specifically as we knew at one event she would need relatively sensible ones.
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