To move DS to a different secondary school against his wishes?(41 Posts)
My sons go to one of the best secondary schools in the city. My eldest is doing very well there whilst my youngest is just being a pain in the arse. He has made no progress in most of his subjects, has actually gone down two grades in maths and all of his effort grades are between c (moderate effort) and d (making very little effort).
His behaviour is terrible and he has been on and off 'report' since he started year 7 last September. He has a list of 'offences' against him including shop lifting from the tesco opposite the school, numerous incidents of fighting, cheeking teachers, low level damage to the new school building, throwing his planner over the balcony and is constantly disrupting lessons and getting chucked out. Last week it all came to a head when he was caught on CCTV being involved in the bullying of another boy. Upon further questioning it emerged that DS has been involved in bullying this kid (volatile lad who erupts if pushed - much to ammusement of the other lads) for over 5 months. So he was put in isolation - he even played up in isolation. I was called into the school and we spoke to head of year and head of lower school - as a result he was allowed back to normal lessons but put on a red report (final report before isolation). His report came back on Friday saying he was silly in lessons and terribly behaved in two subjects.
I've just had a phone call now to say he'd been really naughty in maths lesson, got into a black pen marker fight with another kid (so they're now both covered in marker pen) and when the other kid bent down to pick up the pen off the floor, DS went to kick him in the head. Then denied it despite being seen by the teacher.
Now - we recently moved house so no longer even live near this school. It is a 45 minute bus ride away (when he decides to actually turn up on time). Due to the move, we are now much closer to another secondary school (it's literally around the corner) and whilst it suffers with a terrible past reputation it has recently been rebuilt and restaffed and is improving rapidly.
I have threatened ds that if he can't behave at his current school, he'll be moved to this one. He's adamant that he doesnt want to change schools.
Would it be wrong of me to make this decision anyway and send him to the local school?
He sounds a bit OCD to me - as suggested maybe pressures at home making it worse? School is over stimulating him so he runs riot??
Do you ground him when he miss behaves at school?
I haven't read all the replies to you so far OP,
too hot and I am lazy but your OP reminded me of my no2 son when he started secondary school.
He got into trouble constantly, we were forever getting letters and calls, and going to the school, punishing him, trying to reason with him, you name and we tried it, while his behaviour got worse and worse. To cut a very long story short, it turned out he was being bullied, he was desperately trying to cope with what was, to him, an overwhelming change in his life, and trying to "buy" friends and be the class clown to fit in somehow.
In the end we took him out of the school completely and I wound up homeschooling for four years (which I am happy to bang on about if you want to know any more about the whys and wherefores, PM me) and I believe firmly, then and now, that removing him from the situation, and ultimately the school, saved his life.
chas I don't know if im missing another post of OP in this thread where she is describing her ds but the traits she said doesn't mean SN. Striping of when he gets in, my DH has to strip of to have a pooh, every time. People can have quirks with out being SM and as OP states he has all ready been seen by a professional. People are so quick to give their unqualified diagnosis of SN its rather worrying. It takes an age to diagnose SN not a quick flip through a SN tick list.
BUT it looks like there could be underlying issues at home which could be the underlying cause.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Married, when I lived London one of my friends who was a disillusioned architect retrained as a teacher and got a job in an inner city school. He tried his hardest but told me that the presence of one or two disruptive children really affected his ability to teach the rest of the class. If one of them was absent it was a help but still tricky, when they were both absent the atmosphere was completely different. I am not apportioning blame but there has to be another way. He left teaching in the end because he could not handle the system and moved to south america.
Agree with married in the fact that when kids are bullied you don't give a shiny shit about THEIR home life...you just want to protect your child. So in that way you ARE bu to not deal with him, or find a way of dealing with him. The poor kids he bullies are suffering, but after also reading your post in relationships, I feel he is simply using learnt behaviours. Get rid if your nasty, abusive partner, for the sake of your child (ren), and to preserve your sanity.
Oh gosh I hadn't noticed it was Slug who posted
ahhh its very hard.... with my teacher hat on I agree wholeheartedly with married as I see other kids suffering day in day out from bullies and low level poor behaviour that makes their learning much less effective. In your post you don't seem to be very pro-active at looking for the real roots of the problems, or very bothered that your son was bullying another for so long - poor victim.
with my parent hat on I say I feel sorry for your son, and that he does seem to be calling out for help. From educational experience I can tell you a move will NOT work to another school if the issues aren't dealt with first, as mentioned by someone upthread. it sounds as if you have a difficult time of it at home at the moment, and for that I am very sincerely wishing you the best, I am sure you are trying your very best.
if you want help from school, e.g. CAMHS, counselling, mentoring, whatever is on offer, then in my experience you will have to be the 'pushy parent' who keeps on and on at the school until they get what help they want. this is what I would advise as a starting point.
I come to this from a different perspective. Our dd was driven to distraction and psychatric intervention at a top 100 comp because of five or soic ill behaved little toerags. They were violent, rude, loud, thieved, ointimidated and constantly disrupted. The school made excuse afyter excuse for them because they weren't "advantaged". They were allowed to piss pn the education of tens of others.
It was disgraceful; they needed to nbe dealt with permanently to make room at an excellent school for those prepared to benmefit from it.
If you have problems at home, deal with them; if your son has problems deal with them and him. He is youir responsibility and you need to sort him out. If you don't then sit back and take responsibility for the ruined behaviour of others.
Theft and bullyoing, rudeness insolence and disruption get nobody anywhere. Neither does the lack of boundaries it starts at home OP.
My dd had to move school because of kids like your son. The boot should be on the other foot. I cannot describe how my daughter suffered because the school didn't deal with these children. If the parents won't someone has to. If your circumstance are bad OP and affecting your children then sort them out. Put the wellbeing and future of your children first. Nobody else will.
He's been on school action plus but was taken off because his academic ability is ok and therefore he has no "special needs".
Take him out for the day on his own and he is like a golden child.
That sounds rather familiar.
I just got a phone call today about anger management classes for DS (I am very excited, hope it happens).
I would only move him if you think the new school will provide something better for him. Or if you knew you could support him better by having him closer to home. It sounds a bit like you want to move him to punish him (i understand the impulse, but it's not going to help I reckon). Choose the new school on its own merits not because your DS is such a PITA.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I am actually in tears for that child. Just read the post in relationships - losing battle to keep DP happy. I might sound sanctimonious but I am not. I was beaten up regularly 15 years ago and went into complete denial. Denial is a very real thing and maybe this is the wrong way to go about it but slug you need a wake up call. I honestly hope that it's a case of not seeing the wood for the trees slug but you need to leave, fuck the house.
My own son was so distressed he wet the bed, got into fights, ran away, everyone including some teachers hated him. I knew deep down he was a total dote who was not coping. He is 14 now and making big strides.
A change of school gives a child an opportunity to 'reinvent themselves'. On occasions it really works BUT only if there are no underlying issues that the child will carry with them to a new school. Otherwise another failed placement just reinforces their sense of failure.
Your son's behaviour is telling you something. Perhaps the post from whitesugar above indicates what may be behind his behaviour?
Slug I have been following your thread in relationships and your DP is a controlling bully who seems to have a problem with your son. I am being extremely frank because my DS has dyslexia and I moved him a couple of times. First time to a primary school who actually taught him how to read. Second time to a secondary school who actually gave a shit that he was acting out because of his issues relating to low morale going back to when he could not read.
I don't know the whole story but practically everyone including me who responded to your other thread recommended that you get the hell away from your DP for your sake and DS. I don't think school is the problem I think it's your DP belittling your son.
I had endless problems with my son and believe me I am not parent of the week but I made damn sure he was treated with respect in his own home. I am being honest when I say I am amazed that you don't see the connection between your home life and your sons behaviour. You are an adult and you are struggling to cope with that prick. Get rid of him and focus on your DS. I am being harsh because I am honestly angry that that child is not being listened to. I know it's really hard and you are suffering as well but when the writing is on the wall take notice. I hope things work out for you and your DC.
You've said what he's done - what have YOU done?
What action did you take when you discovered your pre teen was shoplifting for example? When you found out he was bullying someone? Fighting?
On one hand everyone is saying 'ooh he might have HFA' and then saying 'Move his school'
Transitions are often the flash point for poor behaviours for children / YP on the spectrum - whether it's from a task to another task in a class or from class to class or from school to school - transitions are significantly anxiety producing which in turns causes the poor behaviour.
Personally (& been here) I think a knee jerk reaction move would be a bad idea... You need a meeting with school and referral to CAMHS ASAP, he needs a risk assessment and behaviour management plan... If school don't support THEN think about moving him but look at a managed move do you can some control at managing the transition and the new school knowing what they are getting.
I have a 9yr old version tho diagnosed HFA - moved from 1st school knee jerk and from 2nd for specialist provision in current school and after exhausting every avenue.
If school won't refer to CAMHS then go to GP... Sorry but I am bit that he has gone to kick someone in the head and he's not been excluded nor has anyone thought to refer on - he's a significant risk to others and the behaviour is clearly escalating... It may be end of term (I know that one too well) or just the onslaught that secondary education brings but whatever it is you need to start working with school ASAP.
Its not about the schooling its about the sensory issues around clothing etc that I think is making people wonder.
why do people all was assume there is a SN cause why children cant
wont learn at school?
My DD1started playing up in year 8 in her secondary school. she said she cant help herself mess about and join in when her mates where mucking about then there was an incident when she was staying at her friends and I had a weird urge to phone her and discovered after hearing her very suspicious voice her and her friends were sampling a bottle of cider!
Started proceedings to move her school the following Monday morning and never looked back.
It was the best thing we both ever did, knuckeled down and found herself some new friends, college wasn't for her but she walked in to a fantastic job.
I am not a professional but work full time with special needs and I don't think he is attention seeking in the sence of the word ,
I would repost this in special needs, the clothing issues are a big indicator.
Best of luck and I'm sure you will look behind the aggression and see whats happening.
Personally, I think local friends are the last thing he needs. It sounds as though he'd gravitate towards other trouble makers and before you know what's hit you, they'll be skiving school.
I would give him one last chance and then move him. Take him for a tour of the other school so that he knows you are serious.
Even if he does have HFA, he will still need to learn to cope with the things he struggles with. It is not acceptable for him to be so continually disruptive in lessons, ASD or not. My child has AS, but it is nowhere near bad enough to be used as an excuse for persistent bad behaviour, bullying, or shoplifting.
Even if you get a diagnosis, you will still have to find ways of dealing with his issues.
He's a bully, he fights, he shop lifts and he is still only year 7 so something needs to be done or he will end up being expelled!
I would be honest with the local school, explain what he is like & see what they say re. his behaviour, otherwise you will have the exact same problems. You could see it to him by being able to have more 1 -1 time with you as it is closer to home. Plus, he won't be known as ds1's brother soi a complete fresh start.
I have to say, as the possessor of one wind-up merchant and one autistic child, your post is not exactly screaming autism at me. Sorry.
What motivates him? From your post, I'd say the offer of one-to-one time might be a carrot to dangle -- for short spells of decent behaviour
I think it's terrifyingly easy for kids with ASD high on the spectrum to fall through the cracks. Chances are if he HAS got ASD he may well have poor impulse control as one of his symptoms, which could explain A LOT of the issues he and you are having. My ds has HFA and looks totally NT, interacts pretty well too, however he had very severe issues at school resulting in him being "restrained" by a disbelieving teacher that ended up with ds covered in abrasions and bruises.
Don't expect the school to automatically pick it up either, many teachers have little or no experience of it. They have a lot of experience of plain bad behaviour though so that's what they put it down to.
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