Proposal that people with donor cards are given priority over those that don't when needing an organ?

(252 Posts)
angelos02 Thu 11-Jul-13 11:21:01

DM Link if you want more detail:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2359972/Is-fair-dont-Organ-donors-jump-transplant-waiting-list-NHS-plans-boost-donation-levels.html

I can't see why anyone would argue against this. I do think an exception would have to be made for people that can't be donors due to medical reasons. Apart from that, why on earth not?

meddie Thu 11-Jul-13 12:54:26

Patsy do you think that your issues stem from the fact that thinking about donation would mean you have to consider your own mortality and a lot of people dont like to think about that?

I have no problems with being an organ donor, I just hope I don't go before my mum as she has stated that she would not allow me to be a donor, which hopefully these new changes will rectify. Its always annoyed me that she would be able to over rule my wishes.

PatsyAndEddy Thu 11-Jul-13 13:07:31

Perhaps meddie and I tend to buck the opposite way when backed into a corner. The guilt laid on and lack of free will which is around the issue always gets my back up. I can't think of any other scenario where people are forced to think one way or risk getting called selfish etc.

Does that make sense? It's an act of giving that people aren't given the free choice to decide for themselves whether they want to or not. Or rather they are given that choice but the weight of criticisim when they choose the wrong choice kind of outweighs that initial perception of choice.

My friend had really long hair, like down to her bum. She got it cut to just below her ears and donated it to a charity for cancer wigs. How can you not think that's a great thing to do? It is, totally was. But no one expects everyone to do it or calls people selfish for not doing it. Hair is useless afterall is it not?

I'm not comparing hair to a kidney but the point is it's free will over your own body.

BrokenBanana Thu 11-Jul-13 13:10:22

But you are given the choice of whether to donate and you've chosen not to. That's fair enough if that's what you want, but then to say you'd take someone else's organs in a heart beat, that's what makes you sound selfish.

PatsyAndEddy Thu 11-Jul-13 13:11:29

But show me someone who would refuse?

PatsyAndEddy Thu 11-Jul-13 13:12:38

Only 1 in 3 people are registered to donate.

I don't think there's anyone (outwith this mystical religous reasons which no one ever expands on) that would refuse to have their own life saved.

BrokenBanana Thu 11-Jul-13 13:15:21

Like I said, I just can't get my head around why anyone would happily take organs but refuse to be on the donor list. It's greedy and selfish IMO.

ClaraOswald Thu 11-Jul-13 13:15:47

I believe Wales has just gone to opt out system. I an on phone and can't link. There should be something on BBC Wales need about it.

PatsyAndEddy Thu 11-Jul-13 13:16:59

But they're not your thoughts to understand are they?

ClaraOswald Thu 11-Jul-13 13:18:21

From 2015 Wales will be opt out.

Chiggers Thu 11-Jul-13 13:18:43

I'm on the register and have been for some time. I have a fear that when I die, my family (DH/DS/DD) will say no to my organs being donated, due to their grief.

I am seriously thinking about getting a will made where part of it states that organ donation is a must after my death and so, my family will have to go through the courts to be able to refuse my organs for donation. It would be peace of mind for me as I've always believed that the most respectful things to do for a dead person is to make sure their last wishes are carried out.

PatsyAndEddy Thu 11-Jul-13 13:23:17

Isn't time very much of the essence though Chiggers? Isn't there a need for organs to be removed as soon as possbile.

That's another aspect I can't get my head round. I've been there at the end of life for both my grandmothers. I was holding their hand in a quiet room as they slipped away. It was horrible but lovely. The thought of someone looming waiting to start taking bits out of me whilst my children/husband whoever are saying their goodbyes is awful to me.

primallass Thu 11-Jul-13 13:24:41

I do sort-of agree with the proposal - either opt in or out, for both donating and receiving. You are in the system or not, With exceptions for under 18s, people with medical reasons etc.

BrokenBanana Thu 11-Jul-13 13:28:06

I agree that thought isn't very nice patsy, but I just try to think of saving someone else's life if mine can't be saved. It wouldn't make sense for 2 people to die when the unavoidable death of the first person could save the life of the second person.

merlincat Thu 11-Jul-13 13:29:52

Thanks OP, your thread has just prompted me to join the donors register, it took about 30 seconds. You may have even saved a life by doing so.

ZZZenagain Thu 11-Jul-13 13:33:28

I don't have a donor card but the proposal seems reasonable to me, unless it involves a whole lot of paperwork and slows things up. I suppose the main Thing is that whoever needs help urgently can get it but there too with all the administration and so on, who can say which Patient has the most immediate need.

Have never really thought about organ donors before.

RoooneyMara Thu 11-Jul-13 13:34:37

I'm fine with it. For myself at least.

I think I have an old donor card somewhere but actually, I don't really want to be given someone else's organs - and I'm not entirely sure I want mine to be distributed, I don't know, it's not a thing that sits well with me.

But I certainly don't expect to be given someone else's. I'd rather not...I'd rather they went to someone who really wants them, believes in the system, feels desperate to go on living.

if I have to die because I've fucked up my body, or been unfortunate enough to get cancer etc then that's ok. I don't want spare parts, I just don't - there are so many of us on the planet without recycling the dead ones too.

But I am speaking very bluntly here, and I don't think that my view reflects that of most people and I have NOTHING against other people either giving or receiving organs. Hope not to cause any offence.

ZZZenagain Thu 11-Jul-13 13:35:46

I suppose if you are not troubled about receiving one for yourself, maybe the question to consider is whether you would want organ transplants for your dc. I think I would.

RoooneyMara Thu 11-Jul-13 13:37:58

I thought about that - and honestly, I feel a bit like the possibility of it is setting a lot of people up for disappointment - of course it is very clever but until the chances WITH a donor organ improve, then it just feels so sad that people are pinning their hopes on something that might well not work.

I think for my children that is up to them and I'd support them in whatever way I could but I don't feel SO strongly about it.

PatsyAndEddy Thu 11-Jul-13 13:38:21

But rooney where do you draw the line with that train of thought? Would you refuse chemotherapy or the likes?

oxcat1 Thu 11-Jul-13 13:41:34

Those who say that they think it is wrong because you simply might not have had the chance to consider it yet - consider it now! You never know when you might get hit by that bus, and yes, two people might die just because you hadn't thought about it yet.

I'm writing as someone currently undergoing assessment to see if eligible for a lung transplant. The hard fact is that there are not enough organs available. What this means, in reality, is that the doctors are not deciding on medical need, but on likelihood of survival/best possible outcome. So, if there will plentiful organs, the surgeons would decide whether or not an organ was the best chance for me, and then put me on the list to see whether some suitable lungs came up in time. I'd have nothing to lose - I am going to die anyway, and the surgeons could give me the best shot at survival by giving me some suitable lungs.

As it is, I'm not a great candidate for a transplant, in that the cHnce of success is relatively low. I had lung surgery in the past, before my condition was correctly diagnosed, so it may now be difficult to remove my lungs. For me, the best chance of survival is a lung transplant, but there aren't enough, so the surgeons are choosing between me and somebody else, who might have a better chance of the transplant being successful.

That is a difficult one to get my head around. My only chance of survival - and admittedly it is only a chance - is not happening purely because there are so few organs that surgeons choose between me and someone else. Quite rightly, but neither of us chose these conditions, neither of us created them or exacerbated them, and just circumstance has left us where we are. I'd love to say to the surgeons "I'm going to die anyway, you give it your best shot", but because of the shortage of organs, that is not for me, or even them, to say.

Sorry for the length. A rather personal matter, as I''m sure you'll see.

RoooneyMara Thu 11-Jul-13 13:43:40

I may do. I don't know.

You know when you're a bored kid and you're playing patience, and well, you find you're at a stalemate - and so you make up a new rule?

Well transplants, to me, seem to fall into that sort of analogy - like, all else has failed and perhaps it is the end of the line, but hmm, you can borrow from the Aces or turn a card that's not a picture - I don't know, I wonder if sometimes, it's right just to let people go, to accept it is game over?

I make no pretence to be right on this. It is what I feel for myself, and I assume that I'm the weird one and everyone else is sensible and right.

I certainly don't think other people should pass up the opportunity if they want to take it. But I would rather go quietly than have that treatment.

AuntieStella Thu 11-Jul-13 13:45:04

I think it would be totally wrong to arrange waiting lists on anything other than clinical need.

For this, or for anything else.

RoooneyMara Thu 11-Jul-13 13:46:24

Oxcat - I am really sorry for my crossed posts there, and hope I have not offended you. (or anyone else)

I actually find the thought of your having a transplant very exciting - it is wonderful that they can do it - and I wish you the very best.

As I said, it is only a personal viewpoint that I don't think (and can't be sure - lucky enough never to have been tested on that) that I would want to do it.

The thought that I'd be less of a priority if I didn't want to donate, actually takes some of the guilt away, for me. I don't want to feel that I am being given something I'm not fully prepared to give.

FairyJen Thu 11-Jul-13 13:55:43

pasty firstly I commend you on your honesty. I put your opinion across on an almost identical thread a while back and got a proper roasting. I was called all kinds of nasty things etc with posters saying they hoped I would never get a transplant and such. I think you have been lucky in the response you have had.

To the others, it's fine to be online stating your on the donor list however your deluding yourselves if you think there are only a minority of selfish non donors. There wouldn't be such a shortage if it was only medically exempt people not signing up.

This proposal is only going to make things worse I think. I will not be forces into making a choice about my body by anyone, I shall decide for myself and that includes giving or receiving

eccentrica Thu 11-Jul-13 14:12:53

patsy no one is forcing you to do anything. if you find the whole idea of transplanting organs from one body to another so disgusting, that's your prerogative. you can opt out of the whole organ donation system. fine.

there's this weird idea that it's somehow 'brave' and admirable to express thoroughly selfish, self-serving, "I'm alright jack, fuck the rest of you" opinions on an internet forum. newsflash. that doesn't take courage. nor is it a fascinating enigma wrapped in a mystery. it's just selfish and sad.

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