Proposal that people with donor cards are given priority over those that don't when needing an organ?

(252 Posts)
angelos02 Thu 11-Jul-13 11:21:01

DM Link if you want more detail:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2359972/Is-fair-dont-Organ-donors-jump-transplant-waiting-list-NHS-plans-boost-donation-levels.html

I can't see why anyone would argue against this. I do think an exception would have to be made for people that can't be donors due to medical reasons. Apart from that, why on earth not?

angelos02 Thu 11-Jul-13 12:17:44

It makes me sick that someone would happily take an organ 'in an instant' but wouldn't be happy someone having theirs.

I'd rather an alcoholic or heavy smoker that had a donor card got my organs than someone with Patsy's mentality.

lustybusty Thu 11-Jul-13 12:18:33

And with my mammoth post, I have cross posted with many similarly minded people. smile

PatsyAndEddy Thu 11-Jul-13 12:18:42

Is it so selfish to want my body parts though? Is it really?

See I just can'tbalance these thoughts out. Rationally I know, as far as I can know these things, that I'll have no use for them post death.

When I do choose to give, it will be unconditionally.

I'm just not there yet.

They are mine - it's my choice to make and so it should be. I understand that's not comfortable for some people but what can I say?

PatsyAndEddy Thu 11-Jul-13 12:19:30

But I think you're worse for attatching conditions onto something you should be giving with no conditions attached.

lustybusty Thu 11-Jul-13 12:20:34

patsy I think it's about the dual standards - "you can't have mine, but I'll have yours"...

angelos02 Thu 11-Jul-13 12:22:04

Patsy At least I'm on the donor register. Better that than not. I know which of us has the moral high ground here.

I have no control over who gets my organs. That will be down to the rules when I die. Doesn't stop me having an opinion on what I would ideally like to happen.

PatsyAndEddy Thu 11-Jul-13 12:22:47

And it's not that I wouldn't be happy with someone having mine. I would be. I just can't make sense of the whole thing. I have rational views on it but, I'm not going to call not wanting to give organs irrational but I have opposing thoughts on what I want to happen with my bits.

PatsyAndEddy Thu 11-Jul-13 12:23:31

It is dual standards, you're right.

There's no moral highground at stake here Angelos.

Not so sure they are yours anymore when you are dead though?

There is no longer any "you", You dont exist anymore. How can you own something? Your earthly goods is passed on. You cant cling to that. What use is your liver, or your heart?

I would be happy for my heart to keep beating, or my liver and kidney to keep performing their functions in the body of another person. If my kidneys or liver could give life to another person, maybe another mum with young children, it would be the greatest gift to me. It would make my soul happy. smile

So, my reasons for donating are in essence as selfish as Patsys for letting hers rot with her.

limitedperiodonly Thu 11-Jul-13 12:25:04

Some countries have higher rates for organ donation than the UK because they have worse road safety standards.

Of course, it wouldn't make such a good story if we said that British people were selfish for wearing seat belts and crash helmets.

GoodTouchBadTouch Thu 11-Jul-13 12:26:28

CarpeVinum - No, Im not sure, you may be right.

JaquelineHyde - Personally, I don't care what happens to my organs after I die. If it makes my husband feel better to donate them fine, but he should be allowed to wait and see how he feels at the time, therefore I wont sign the register.

jeee Thu 11-Jul-13 12:26:39

But Patsy, you don't really have much of a say as to what happens to you bits, anyway. There are three options: (1) they rot, (2) they burn, or (3) they are used to save another person's life.

I still believe absolutely that there should be no conditions, other than medical need, as to who gets a transplant.

eccentrica Thu 11-Jul-13 12:28:18

patsy you seem to not understand, what people find so offensive is the "what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine" attitude.

and as it goes, I think there is a moral high ground. or at least a moral low ground, and being happy to receive but not to give is pretty much the definition of it.

BrokenBanana Thu 11-Jul-13 12:28:44

Genuine question patsy, have you ever thought of how you would feel if it was you or your child, or a much loved friend or family member that was needing an organ donation?

IMO our bodies aren't really us iykwim, it's just a vessel that carries us through life. They may take my organs when I die but I'll still be here, just living through memories.

JaquelineHyde Thu 11-Jul-13 12:29:09

Patsy I think it is very brave of you coming on here and having an open discussion about your choices. I don't agree with your choices but I respect your right to choose.

I would like to understand why you feel the way you do, but I'm not sure you even understand it.

Anyway, I disagree with this new proposal and would happily give you my organs to help you live, even if you wouldn't give me yours.

PatsyAndEddy Thu 11-Jul-13 12:32:40

I'm not causing offence. I'm talking through thoughts I have on the issue.

If it was my child/family/friend I'd be tested in a second for a live donation if that was possible.

I'd hope they got what they needed from someone who had choose to donate. What else would I do?

You're completely right Quintessential

PatsyAndEddy Thu 11-Jul-13 12:34:43

Thank you Jaqueline and you're right, I can square my thoughts with myself and I understand it's not pallatable to openly say these things. But it is a choice. Like I say I'm not saying never just when it's discussed I sort of clam up and decide not to think about it anymore and don't sign up.

Opt out would be different, I wouldn't actually take the steps to opt out.

Strange.

BrokenBanana Thu 11-Jul-13 12:38:24

Maybe you should stop clamming up then and actually think about it, cos so far your reasons are shit.

You are of course entitled to your own opinion, but I have to say you come across as incredibly selfish.

PatsyAndEddy Thu 11-Jul-13 12:41:02

BB it's attitudes like yours that make this so hard to reason out. It's my body, my choice. No other aspect of medical treatment or decision is forced upon people in such a rude and agressive way.

I've explained my choice at this moment in time, explained I find it difficult but am not adverse the idea, have had reasoned and balanced responses and opened up discussions here but I really don't see the need for the insults.

SelectAUserName Thu 11-Jul-13 12:43:43

Patsy I don't agree with your views and haven't made the same choices as you, but I respect your honesty in articulating how you feel. I know some people who have ticked to donate anything other than their corneas, because they think "eyes are different".

I don't think there should be any conditions on receipt of a donor organ. I can't put it better than jeee did upthread: Getting a transplant is not some kind of reward for good behaviour. It is, and should remain, purely a medical decision .

I am on the organ donor register and have been for over 20 years, but I have also signed forms to donate my body to medical science (I have a comparatively rare condition which would benefit from further post-mortem research) which can be incompatible with organ donation. My wishes, which have been made clear to my whole family, is that if I die in a way which allows any of my organs to be harvest, then that is the priority. I would be extremely upset and disappointed if my family over-ruled my wishes (well, I wouldn't be because I'd be dead, but YKWIM).

GoodTouchBadTouch - do you not think it might help your husband deal with a situation which would be unbelieveably traumatic for him, if he had a clear indication of your wishes by you having signed the register? At the very least, I hope you have discussed it with him. Heaven forbid anything should happen to you, but him being asked about organ donation at the point he is being advised your life support machine needs to be switched off is NOT the first time for him to have to think about it, IMO.

SelectAUserName Thu 11-Jul-13 12:44:42

harvested

"Not so sure they are yours anymore when you are dead though?"

You are not always dead when the decision has to be made, or when preparation starts for harvesting.

Our NHS care should be without moral judgement, there are restrictions, obviously, because of a resource issues, but that should be as far as it goes.

Where would it end? Unless you donate for research, then you don't benefit from new drugs? You cannot get IVF etc, unless you donate/take part in research etc.

I am a donor and so are my children, but i had friends who were caught up in the Alderhey scandal and there should always be consent, even if some view the body as merely an empty vessel.

I take part in drug trials, as well as undergoing different procedures for research, but this should be of an individuals choosing.

The Bio Bank would like everyone, especially those with health conditions to take part in longitude studies, this involves sharing very personal information, so this would be a slippery slope.

Not everyone has the ability to rationalise these decisions, so they behave unselfishly, which then would mean that we are back to those with MH/LD's going without transplants, again.

BrokenBanana Thu 11-Jul-13 12:51:49

I didn't say it wasn't your choice. I was just giving my opinion on your choice.

I can't get my head round your way of thinking, how you would quickly take but not give and not even have any special reasons for it. It honestly baffles me.

jeee Thu 11-Jul-13 12:52:36

Patsy, my sister had two liver transplants. She died waiting for a third.

She had always believed passionately in organ donation, even when it was something that happened to other people. She felt that this helped her to come to terms with accepting an organ when she needed one.

I think people can become very angry on this issue. And I think it can be counter-productive to try to emotionally arm-twist someone to join the register. But there are real, very normal, people waiting for organs. And it may be your family in need tomorrow.

On a lighter note, my eldest DD was working on a pamphlet about organ donation for a school project. I did suggest that her slogan might need changing... "SAVE LIVES, DONATE TODAY!"

"he should be allowed to wait and see how he feels at the time"

My DH died from Cancer, i asked if there was anything that they could take, he was damaged by intense medication/treatment/disease.

I had chance to grieve and think, because he was ill for so long, but i can imagine that many do not have that opportunity.

I also had family to help my children, as if i had been on my own, then they would have been enough to deal with rather than think about donation.

His family didn't agree, but we had, had the conversation, before he was ill, donation was something that we believed in.

I think that we should be encouraging teenagers ti have these discussions, in school, they are given the chance to debate chosen subjects, to teach them debating skills.

This should be a compulsory topic, unless forbidden by religion/culture.

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