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To be fucking raging about sleazy horrible men

(116 Posts)
SweetHoneyBeeeeee Fri 28-Jun-13 19:50:54

I don't know what it is about me but I seem to attract the unwanted attention of fucking horrible sleazy men sad I am happily married (not really relevant) and dress quite conservatively but just seem to always be the subject of horrible men running their eyes over me and blowing kisses/dropping their business cards in my lap/hooting/making (very unsubtle) remarks to theirs friends and since even asking for shag in a train full of people. Today has been dress down at work, I am wearing skinny jeans, flats a floaty vest top and a baggy cardi ...to be honest, this morning I looked in the mirror and thought I had overdone the under-dressed look and yet I still get some fucking asshole asking me if I fancy a fuck! angry No I FUCKING DON'T, FUCK OFF! (Disclaimer: pmt and my mother may have put me in a bad mood today) angry

limitedperiodonly Sun 30-Jun-13 08:24:30

So the question has to be asked, should sexually aggravated harassment be criminalised, as with racially aggravated offences recently?

Yes, I think if you're going to have the concept of hate crimes, they should, along with rape.

It's not going happen though, while women as well as men, persist in the belief that cat-calling, groping and rape aren't crimes, and crimes motivated by hatred at that, but just things that happen because of misunderstandings and misread signals.

I'm still amazed this thread hasn't attracted any apologists yet. It must have been the sunny weather - they were probably all out harassing or being harassed.

kickassangel Sun 30-Jun-13 04:57:22
LessMissAbs Sun 30-Jun-13 03:49:01

And men seem to try it on more when a woman looks vulnerable that could be anything from looking young to being unaccompanied. And it seems worse in spring/summer than other times of the year.

Trouble is, if you complain too much about it, people think you're uptight.

I get it a lot. I'm both small and young looking, but im also possessed of a fearsome temper when it happens. My favourite retort at the moment is 'This isn't Afghanistan, and you aren't the fucking Taliban'.

As well as the above incidents, a few weeks ago I had a lorry driver keep flashing his lights at me in slow moving traffic whenever I pulled ahead of him.

He followed me into the petrol station I went into to fill up with diesel. I gave him it full barrels. He literally ran away, muttering that I was a nutter. What do these men think you're going to do? enact some scene from a porn film?

Its also been silly season for men I've never or barely spoken to tracking me down and pming me on Facebook. 3 so far this year, and for some reason often very early in the morning. All the type you wouldn't dream of dating even if you were desperate. I hate bloody Facebook pms from all but my closest friends with a passion.

LessMissAbs Sun 30-Jun-13 03:38:00

So the question has to be asked, should sexually aggravated harasment be criminalised, as with racially agravated offences recently?

Sheshelob Sat 29-Jun-13 22:06:31

A campaign alone will achieve little. Direct action is important. Why should we need to rely on an official voice telling people right from wrong when we can be directly confronting these issues as and when they come up? Things only change when you confront them head on.

This is not victim blaming. This is choosing not to stand by and let creepy men control how we are in the world. I have been on the receiving end of all measure of harassment. It didn't make me change anything about how I dressed (having a baby and being left with a crepey apron did that). But it made me fucking angry. So I wear that anger like a "don't fuck with me" armour. I'm not scared. I'm furious.

A campaign, no matter how effective, will never capture that.

FreudiansSlipper Sat 29-Jun-13 21:35:47

Agree if your partner is insisting that you change your behaviour or dress that is controlling behaviour

but programmes that help women get out of abusive relationships while placing the blame on their parnter will also work on building their self confidence so they are able to leave their relationship safely and confidently with less chance on them returning

I think people are confusing confidence as in social confidence or how you look with inner confidence how you feel about yourself in relation to others

Rowanred Sat 29-Jun-13 21:11:53

You need to perfect "a look" of pure distain for men like this. I get it a lot but normally get rid of them in under 30 seconds now. You just have to be really harsh. It works for charity muggers too! ( the "look" , that is!)

Darkesteyes Sat 29-Jun-13 21:05:56

If we bring our daughters up to change their behaviour and the way they dress to avoid harassment and abuse then they will also carry that message into their relationships as well.
According to Womens Aid if you have to change the way you dress or yr demeanour in a relationship to placate an abuser then that is abuse.
Saying that young women should change their demeanour or way they dress to avoid public harassment and abuse is then in direct contradiction to that. It is giving out mixed messages.

Darkesteyes Sat 29-Jun-13 21:01:21

How about a campaign telling males not to harass not to rape not to assault.

Sheshelob Sat 29-Jun-13 20:12:26

So how do you see this changing, darkesteyes and velvet? What are your practical solutions for the daily harassment of women, that don't require women to change their behaviour?

GeekLove Sat 29-Jun-13 15:39:36

londone17
Might be worth naming and shaming them particulary if they are a chain. At the very least we would know who to avoid.

learnasyougo Sat 29-Jun-13 15:29:31

I'm sure some men do it just to shock a woman and watch the woman's face change in response. A kinda pathetic cry for attention. Being the one to make someone else go shock or blush gives some people a sense of power. I suspect it's about that.

Darkesteyes Sat 29-Jun-13 15:12:03

Velvet i agree Thats exactly what i meant.

Darkesteyes Sat 29-Jun-13 15:00:06

I think ppl have misunderstood my post Of course you should face it down. I always do. What i object to is ppl saying that "if you appear
confident when you are out it will reduce the risk of you being harassed"

A. if you are not a confident person naturally it involves changing your behaviour to avoid harassment and abuse.
b. Like i said upthread if the genders were reversed on this and women were harassing quiet men do you really think they would be wringing their hands and getting on a forum to discuss whether the amount of confidence they were showing out in public contributed to their harassment?!!

Being expected to change yr demeanour and "appear confident" to avoid it IS victim blaming.

bellasuewow Sat 29-Jun-13 14:45:57

Solid is dead right, when I was young and hot I used to get it a lot and to be honest it is not a compliment it is a misogynistic put down by men who feel insulted by you because they see you and fancy you but realise they will never get near you so have to make themselves feel a bit better with some casual abuse, pathetic and illegal. I agree with you be safe and dress down on public transport and perfecting a looks could kill expression helps.

IfNotNowThenWhen Sat 29-Jun-13 14:18:36

Oh, for some reason I thought she was buying the mans top for herself! ( I have clearly been single too long!)
I agree with Freudian re victim blaming. If you say that a sleazebag picks on a particular type of person, that is not to say that the perp is not to blame. Its just saying that the man is on the lookout for someone he reckons he can humiliate and get away with it.
In the same way that you are far, far more likely to be assaulted under the age of 19, because you seem more vulnerable.
That is not to say that it is teenage girls fault for being young, just that certain men will be more likely to percieve you as a target when you are young.
My BFF used to get loads of awful stuff from sleazebags. Followed home, flashed at, awful comments. She is very slim and small boned,and probably seemed very young.
The fact that actually she us confident ( and has always had the voice of a chain smoking 45 year old!) didn't matter too much- although she could see them off quite effectively, it was how she was perceived.
So, not remotely her fault- nothing she could do about being teeny.
The fact is though, that we do need to learn to stand up for ourselves. Just to say " oh well it shouldn't happen" is not going to stop it. We should be vocal and pissed off about it, as a woman, and on behalf of other women, and girls when it happens to them.
culture can change- most building sites now have strict policies about this kind of behaviour, so it happens a lot less with construction workers. If women call these sleazebags on it, every time, and realise it doesn't have to just be part of life, then the tossers might think twice.

yamsareyammy Sat 29-Jun-13 13:26:01

Do you wear a lot of pink or red?
Are you in certain areas?

Not at all saying that this excuses anyone's behaviour.

SofaCanary Sat 29-Jun-13 13:16:04

This never happens to me and to be honest I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that confused

edam Sat 29-Jun-13 12:45:02

Startail, I got lots of it despite wearing glasses!

limitedperiodonly Sat 29-Jun-13 12:40:39

And I understand what you're saying about stealth boasting OP.

I'm impressed that no one's accused you of that or said it puts a spring in their step every time a stranger shouts 'nice jugs' at them.

I wonder how long that will last?

HighInterestRat Sat 29-Jun-13 12:33:15

Ooh yes I've had "stuck up bitch" when I am out and about and once a man bumped into me in town on purpose and then mimicked my voice in a put-on upper class accent when I apologised (I know, conditioning. sad) I don't even speak like that, just don't have the regional accent here and he obviously thought I was a bit above myself and wanted to take me down a peg or two. I laughed at him because it was completely unexpected and that was the best reaction I've ever given to something like that. The scowl I received in return made me laugh even harder. grin

ParsleyTheLioness Sat 29-Jun-13 12:28:19

Ifnot I think the point was that if she was buying a man's top, she probably wasn't single, so innapropriate.

limitedperiodonly Sat 29-Jun-13 12:27:32

I don't think you should bother trying to think of something witty.

'What did you just say to me?' said loudly enough for other people to hear, works.

It happens whether you look confident or not. One of the worst things said to me was when I was smartly dressed and a man hissed as he passed me: 'You think you look like a fucking film star, don't you?'

I say worst because he made no pretence of complimenting me, like creeps often do. It was clear that he hated women.

ExcuseTypos Sat 29-Jun-13 12:16:05

I'd also like a few suggestions for good 'come back' phrases.

I was paying for petrol the other day and a sleaze bag behind me said 'it must be lovely wearing a skirt on a hot day, it means you get some air to all areas" Tbh I was gob smacked and didn't say anything. I wished I had.

I've got 2 DDs and want to arm them with some good advice.

Startail Sat 29-Jun-13 12:04:06

Posted to soon.

Threads like this make me wonder if I should say something to them, but what.

As I say I just don't get this stuff.

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