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to think that fox hunting ban might have been a mistake?

(284 Posts)
lessonsintightropes Wed 26-Jun-13 00:29:22

I live in suburban South London and have done for donkeys. Over the last five years foxes have been encroaching a lot into our neighbourhood and have killed a couple of cats, and regularly torn up bins etc. I know at least nine individual foxes by sight. I'm in zone 3!

I was always rabidly anti-hunting on cruelty grounds when I was ill informed younger. My DBrother and DSis live in very rural Hampshire; she used to hunt and now they drag-hunt exclusively, but they lose a lot of chickens, ducks and cats despite stalagluft-style electric fences.

I've rethought my position over time and have come to the conclusion that town people shouldn't dictate to country people how to live, and vice versa. Especially when countryside vermin start inhabiting my street!

What makes me a bit anxious is the risk to children and domestic pets from a growing fox population. It's certainly made my cat anxious and makes me freak out a bit when I see something dog sized in my tiny suburban garden, but am also well prepared to listen to arguments the other direction (although I will always wish they don't rip up my recycling bags).

Would love to know what the MN jury has to say?

Sparrowp Wed 26-Jun-13 01:00:22

I saw a fox in a field once. That's about it...

Why don't you do something else with your horse. What about the horse-dancing thing?

yeah, dressage. do that.

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik Wed 26-Jun-13 01:00:55

Not all 'country people' were against the hunt ban.

Some hunts made a very bad name for themselves. I don't think it's a particularly lovely way to keep down fox numbers, but my issues with the local hunts were more to do with them being arrogant and disruptive.

Wuldric, the chase could go on a for a long time. The whole time a fox was being chased it would be utterly terrified. It certainly is cruel.

I have not claimed that foxes aren't vermin, just that they should be culled humanely. Killing is a job that that no pleasure should be gained from.

And "old love", really? hmm

WorraLiberty Wed 26-Jun-13 01:02:56

Wuldric I'm quite sure the council have a far more successful death rate when it comes to the masses of foxes they kill.

But personally I think it's more about the sick minds of those who take pleasure in the death and see it as a 'sport'.

I feel the same way about anyone who celebrates terror and death.

Their 'wealth' would be far better put to use by seeking psychiatric help and looking into why they get off on this type of thing.

That's the way i see it Worra. To take pleasure from killing is twisted.

I don't care whether it's the wealthy upper class, or working class that are doing it, it's still sick.

If culling has to be done then so be it, but not like that.

LackaDAISYcal Wed 26-Jun-13 01:09:16

"Fox hunting is the equivalent of putting a mouse trap in your kitchen"

Oh yes, because I often dress up in red blazer, invite over dozens of my friends and then chase a terrified mouse round the kitchen for several hours before ripping it to shreds and daubing my children with its blood hmm

What utter tosh Wuldric.

EMUZ Wed 26-Jun-13 01:26:47

I get irritated with people mocking the "dress up thing". It's called tradition, like a wedding dress or a uniform. When I go to compete a horse I have to wear certain clothing, it's rules and established. I do it because its polite to the judge, I'd quite like to win and not be disqualified
The majority of what people wear hunting is exactly the same as what people wear in the show ring but I don't see people mocking then
Sorry, it just irritates me to be labelled "pompous and dressed up" when I make a huge effort to make me and horse look smart. And am not wealthy and work for NHS

MrsVJDay Wed 26-Jun-13 01:34:54

Dear God, foxes die from 'sheer fright', really? How fucking stupid are some people, really?
Foxes are the only animal, apart from humans, who hunt for reasons other than food. Whether that be fun, malice or whatever. This is why any country folk, having seen the carnage they create even when fences are dug in 3 feet down lose while runs of chickens (none actually eaten btw)

I have no objection to people dressing up and making an effort, or tradition. All good harmless fun.

Thedefinition of the word pompous is "Affectedly and irritatingly grand, solemn, or self-important".

In my own personal opinion getting ketted out like that to carry out pest control for pleasure fits the definition.

We're not talking about horse shows, or other occasions when people dress up, we're talking about getting dressed up especially to kill!

SodaStreamy Wed 26-Jun-13 01:43:48

This kind of crap makes me annoyed

You are talking about an animal who gets hunted out of it's natural habitat (where is it supposed to go?)

To MrsVJDay Dear God , humans are the animals that make a sport out of dressing up, getting on the backs of other animals and training dogs to go and rip an other animal to death for sport, then rubbing the blood of the kill on their young like some sort of rite of passage

ps my domestic cat used to hunt mice and really wasnt fussed about eating it....more a present delivered iyswim

Who said foxes die from sheer fright?

No the fox doesn't die from the terror it experiences whilst being hounded, but i can think of better ways to spend the last hour or two of your life wink

The local farmers around here shoot the foxes if they're causing a nuisance, never seen one of them dressing up for the occasion or turning into a sport. They don't appear to have the time nor the inclination.

Lovecat Wed 26-Jun-13 01:46:09

Wuldric, 'old love', you're talking rubbish with your second point.

Until DD happened along I owned a horse. Along with 90% of my yard I wasn't rich, and certainly wasn't after paying my horse feed and livery bills (not to mention the blacksmith, mutter mutter idiot horse with feet the size of dinner plates that needed shoeing every 4 weeks). We were a motley bunch of teachers, NHS workers, manual labourers and factory workers, who loved our horses enough to spend all our spare time/money on them.

Hunting is a completely inefficient way of killing foxes. A friend of mine who lives in Hornsey has just clubbed together with her neighbours and paid a firm to come and shoot their foxes. In 2 days in just their street they have killed 8 foxes quickly and cleanly. Hunting, with the death of an animal at the end of it, is horrible and unneccessary. I wouldn't drag hunt because I value my life but it's there as a legal alternative if you are mental like riding fast over the countryside.

Yours, a horse-riding socialist who likes dressing up to do dressage etc. smile

MrsVJDay, i will tell you what i tell my young children, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because a fox hunts for pleasure, that doesn't make it okay for humans to do so. We are not wild animals.

If a wild animal is causing problems we deal with it in a time and cost effective and humane manner.

LackaDAISYcal Wed 26-Jun-13 01:52:06

Cats also kill for the pleasure of it. Best start culling the urban cat population.

Hunting may have its origins in keeping the pest at bay but latterly was all about the pomp and ceremony and the port quaffing and having one's revenge on a defencelss animal and revelling in that revenge....hence the dressing up being an integral part of it. If it was only about keeping the fox population down, a bunch of blokes in sweaty jeans and barbours with guns would do the job much better just as well

And remember only 5-6% of foxes killed each year prior to the ban were done so by fox-hunting.

Faff all to do with keeping pests down.

And, if the dressing up and riding about blowing horns is that important (each to their own), fine, just carry on with that aspect without ripping animals apart.

SodaStreamy Wed 26-Jun-13 02:08:11

A question for the pro hunters here....

Because I would like to know the answer to this

Why do you rub the child forehead who's first catch it is in the blood of the kill?

SodaStreamy Wed 26-Jun-13 02:11:30

And as I said before this makes me annoyed

THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO TURN KILLING AN ANIMAL INTO A SPORT

LackaDAISYcal Wed 26-Jun-13 02:14:34

because it is an integral part of the humane culling process and nothing to do with pleasure/pomp/ceremony/pack mentality would be my guess SodaStreamy hmm

To the OP, foxes are not a threat to local pets, provided the pets are secure. If you have small rodents, and a vibrant fox population, you could always keep the pets indoors, and teach your children not to approach wild animals and to make as much noise as possible in your garden to discourage them.

SodaStreamy Wed 26-Jun-13 02:32:52

err... so you think folk ridingabout in redcoats on horseback with beagles baying for blood playing the bugle is an 'intergal part of the humane culling process' then?

Seriously?

EMUZ Wed 26-Jun-13 02:33:30

SodaStreamy - not that up on it (some of my friends hunt) but I believe again as with the clothes, drink etc it is an old tradition that still carries on

SodaStreamy Wed 26-Jun-13 02:35:11

why does it take 40 men and women on horseback, dressed up in the hunt clothes, with a pack of dogs and playing a bugle to 'cull' in your words ...one little fox

Bit overkill no?

EMUZ Wed 26-Jun-13 02:36:45

You get kitted up not for the pest control as such but for the tradition and because its respectful to the hunt master. You could turn up with your horse covered in mud and wearing willies but yeah, it would be frowned upon
Not arguing about for or against it but some of the stuff said still believes that it's wealthy people who do this and that

EMUZ Wed 26-Jun-13 02:37:03

Feck! Wellies not willies!!! grinblushblushblush

SodaStreamy Wed 26-Jun-13 02:41:24

EMUZ well some traditions should be broken

Is it till ok to 'fag' a boy at boarding school simply because it is a British Tradition?

EMUZ Wed 26-Jun-13 02:42:42

Well no, and I'm not saying all hunts do blood the new person, I honestly don't know. I'd imagine if you said no they're not going to pin you down

SodaStreamy Wed 26-Jun-13 02:48:07

well i've yet to see someone coming out of a council estate , or on benefits don a horse and ride out into the sunset to join a hunt!

It's also the 'want to be considered as wealthy brigrade' that participate

a) You have to have acces to a horse

B) You must think it's ok to hunt an animal to death

C) You're a bit a prick if you think this is ok or fun

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