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Jeremy Forrest verdict - aibu to be confused?

(1000 Posts)
noddyboulder Thu 20-Jun-13 14:54:45

Yep, I don't think even his own parents could deny he's a massive, hideous scumbag with no impulse control - but how can he have been found guilty of abduction when the girl he had an affair with said it was her idea to go to France and she went willingly?

Can somebody legal shed some light?

larrygrylls Mon 24-Jun-13 10:40:00

LittlePea,

Fair enough, it is a perspective, though not mine.

You clearly imagine there is a rubicon on a child's 16th birthday when having sex with them goes, in that particular infinitesimal moment of time, from being a despicable crime where no sentence is too harsh to not being a crime at all. I am quite curious as to what you think actually happens at midnight on that birthday?

And it would not be a crime at all in most of Europe, but here is one of the most despicable crimes that one can imagine, comparable with murder (?!) (I am talking here hypothetically of sex with a 15 year old minor, not where someone has a particular position of responsibility).

So, sorry, yes, I do think it is a scale.

LittlePeaPod Mon 24-Jun-13 10:42:16

Whitgold. Just saw this.. Would you feel the same if a male 30 year old teacher groomed your son when he's 14? Somehow I don't think you will say your son has to take some responsibility?

Good point.

AnyFucker Mon 24-Jun-13 10:46:05

ada what was the police response to you re. the FB page ?

merrymouse Mon 24-Jun-13 10:49:55

The age of consent is 16, not 18.

However, re: 16, I'd say that as its difficult to earn enough money to support a child when you are 15 (paper rounds don't pay that much) and its tricky to continue your education when you have a young baby, there are quite good reasons to delay sex if you are a girl.

(And you should never ever ever sleep with somebody who would steal his wife's passport. Sometimes it takes a few years to realise this might not be a romantic gesture).

AnyFucker Mon 24-Jun-13 10:50:10

Those arguing for the blurring of boundaries around the age of consent are very worrying individuals

However, it isn't relevant here since this bloke started grooming a child who was a full 4 years below the legal position wrt his position and the child's position

That's quite a lot of "slippage" isn't it ? Perhaps 12yo's are fair game for predatory men ? Why not scrap the age of consent completely, it's a dog eat dog world after all and those knowing young girls should be given their own agency to be abused.

merrymouse Mon 24-Jun-13 10:50:22

16 not 18 in this case.

WouldBeHarrietVane Mon 24-Jun-13 10:51:04

I think that in the real world where many teenage girls are sexually active, having sex (mostly with peers) despite the current age of sexual consent they would find this thread bizarre.

People under 16 do have sex, they do get stds, they do get pg.

Teachers getting involved with pupils is highly reprehensible. But in my view unless the pupil is under 15, or there is coercion involved, the consequences should be loss of livelihood, possibly a large fine and a community sentence.

5madthings Mon 24-Jun-13 10:52:09

Its not about the age of consent for sex, its about the fact that he manipulated and abused a minor and abused his trust in a position of responsibility to do so!

AnyFucker Mon 24-Jun-13 10:53:42

I suppose it depends on your definition of "coercion"

14yo girl with troubled home life and history of self harm/charming 30 yr old in position of power

There is coercion aplenty there (from his side)

runningforthebusinheels Mon 24-Jun-13 10:54:52

AF I knew a man (vaguely - friend of a friend) who was a journalist who used to argue that there should be no age of consent. He argued passionately and vociferously. And wrote articles on it.

He is currently on bail for child sex abuse charges.

None of us were very surprised.

LittlePeaPod Mon 24-Jun-13 10:55:07

Larry. Firstly we don't live in another European country. We live in the UK under our laws.. So what happens in other European countries is irrelevant.

This case isn't just about children having sex one day before the childs 16th birthday vs on their 16th birthday. This is about an adult taking advantage and grooming a child from the age of 14 for his own selfish prevented reasons. A child with emotional issues! We can not get away from that. The age of content under these circumstances is irrelevant. In this case he looks to have taken his time to get her to the position he wanted. It's not just about the sex, its the control, manipulation, lies and all the staff that goes along with child abuse and grooming..

With regards the JF case, lets not forget as a teacher he shouldn't have got involved with the child until she was 18 years old.

flippinada Mon 24-Jun-13 10:58:53

AF - I reported it to Sussex Police and they've passed it on to CID.

WouldBeHarrietVane Mon 24-Jun-13 10:59:45

I actually used to research sexual violence professionally and am no apologist for it.

I happen to think that saying to teenagers who do have the mental capacity to choose that they don't have the right to do so is belittling them.

I can see the logic of counter arguments, but I believe the age of consent is set too high.

LittlePeaPod Mon 24-Jun-13 10:59:49

IPad predictive texts angry. Please excuse but I am sure you get the point...

AnyFucker Mon 24-Jun-13 11:00:41

I am glad, ada

LittlePeaPod Mon 24-Jun-13 11:02:51

His thread is nearly done. If anyone is interested in any updates I may get regarding police report I will post on following link. Ada. They sent my complaint yo CID too.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1785730-AIBU-to-think-he-deserve-to-be-in-PRISON-its-abuse

AnyFucker Mon 24-Jun-13 11:04:31

I don't believe the AOC is realistically to protect young people from each other

Two 15yo's experimenting together is very different than a relationship between a 30yo and a 15yo

I really don't understand why people don't get this, and find it very concerning that on a thread about this horrendous case some people would argue for the AOC to be lowered.

DuelingFanjo Mon 24-Jun-13 11:04:44

"With two boys below 5, I cannot really say what I would want or do should it happen to my hypothetical daughter. However, one thing that I am determined to do is teach my children right from wrong and that they have to take responsibility for their life decisions. That does not mean that I would not want the teacher to be punished, nor that I would support my child in an inappropriate relationship. On the other hand, I would certainly offer continuing support to my child regardless of how I viewed their choice of relationships and would never say they were "dead to me" because they fell in love with the wrong person."

How would you feel if one of your young teenage year old sons was taken abroad by a male or female teacher after a period of time where that teacher had been having sex with them and after that teacher had called you personally to tell you that he was not having sex with them?

How would you feel if one of your sons went from being a loving responsible child who once knew right from wrong, to a child who allowed a much older teacher to use another person's passport to take them illegally to another country?

DuelingFanjo Mon 24-Jun-13 11:06:45

A teacher friend of mine put it this way...

"I don't see where the argument is or how someone could defend a teacher who abused his authority.
I am shocked that anyone could see his side. If he was her father people would be disgusted so if a teacher's responsibility is in loco parentis they are supposed to act as the parent to the children in their care / responsibility. Therefore a sexual relationship is not acceptable".

AnyFucker Mon 24-Jun-13 11:07:58

The thing is, this kind of stuff only happens to those other children, doesn't it ?

Not larry's kids, oh no. Just them other types

WouldBeHarrietVane Mon 24-Jun-13 11:08:43

I don't think it is horrendous, AF.

Immature stupid man deserves to be banned from teaching. Stupid behaviour, but I find the sentence too harsh.

There are far far worse cases.

WouldBeHarrietVane Mon 24-Jun-13 11:09:31

Aoc should reflect capacity to choose to have sex. In my view many at 15 can validly choose.

LittlePeaPod Mon 24-Jun-13 11:11:28

This thread is nearly done. If anyone is interested in any updates I may get regarding police report I will post on following link.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1785730-AIBU-to-think-he-deserve-to-be-in-PRISON-its-abuse

WouldBeHarrietVane Mon 24-Jun-13 11:11:34

The main issue is her age, so aoc is relevant to the debate on this thread. And I don't think she would disagree with my comments!

AnyFucker Mon 24-Jun-13 11:11:34

It wouldn't be horrendous if it were your child then, harriet ?

Says it all, really

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