Note: Please bear in mind that whilst this topic does canvass opinions, it is not a fight club. You may disagree with other posters but we do ask you please to stick to our Talk Guidelines and to be civil. We don't allow personal attacks or troll-hunting. Do please report any. Thanks, MNHQ.

to think it was a nutter not a terrorist attack?

(92 Posts)
Corygal Thu 23-May-13 20:36:40

Because that's what we all say at Lambeth College evening class, with most students coming from Woolwich. No one thinks for a minute the killers had anything serious to do with Al Qaeda but were, most likely, mentally ill, personality disordered or just plain old murderers.

What we do think is that the media has not considered this possibility, and of course now the racism and anti-muslim schtick gets another go.

WineNot Thu 23-May-13 21:02:53

Indeed AuntieStella

One dictionary's definition of terrorist:

a person who terrorizes or frightens others.

For those reasons, I'm in the 'it's a terrorist attack' camp.

scottishmummy Thu 23-May-13 21:03:45

oh do be quiet with idle inane speculation what someone in a caff told you
can you comprehend that human beings are capable of heinous violence,in absence mental illness
there has been no suggestion yet this is mh.so be aware such idle speculation must be mad adds to stigma and misunderstanding

scottishmummy Thu 23-May-13 21:10:00

are you taking an evening class in stating bleedin obvious or bird at bus stop said

SodaStreamy Thu 23-May-13 21:17:03

He said (the guy who did it) that it was a terrorist attack so why is it disputed?

He talked about the government not being for people.

He has a point but the actions he choose are dreadful

Its two guys with machetes not the same as someone flying a plane into the twin towers or blowing up trains on 7/7

But it has the same effect to spread fear

Orwellian Thu 23-May-13 21:17:20

You're right. It was probably their way of protesting against the EU ban against olive oil on tables...

BasicallySFB Thu 23-May-13 21:20:39

What Scottishmummy said.

Um....why does someone have to either be a terrorist OR have MH issues to do something horrific? People do awful, atrocious things all the time...and don't have a mental illness or a personality disorder.

People do horrible things. People can be evil.

poppycock6 Thu 23-May-13 21:24:33

Erm.. Nutter / terrorist - same thing. Insane and out of touch with reality

landofsoapandglory Thu 23-May-13 21:25:50

Why don't people want to accept it was a terrorist attack?

kim147 Thu 23-May-13 21:29:29

I don't think you can say nutter / terrorist as the same thing.
One man's terrorist and all that.
Al Quaeda do not like the West and having Western troops in Muslim countries. They will go to extreme lengths to challenge that situation - we call it terrorism but to others, they are freedom fighters fighting for their beliefs.

I really do not like the word "nutter" being used here. It just does not seem right.

scottishmummy Thu 23-May-13 21:29:46

utter rot. one can commit heinous act and have no mental health issue
you simply cannot say any violent act must be driven by mental illness
it's such assumption that criminality,deviance are result of that maintain stigma

poppycock6 Thu 23-May-13 21:40:00

Surely, to commit a heinous act you obviously aren't in a normal state of mind

LarvalFormOfOddSock Thu 23-May-13 21:43:49

I'm with scottishmummy on this.

Time to Change has a very informative article on violence and mental health here www.time-to-change.org.uk/news-media/media-advisory-service/help-journalists/violence-mental-health-problems if anyone cares to know the facts.

I quote "The majority of violent crimes and homicides are committed by people who do not have mental health problems. In fact, 95 per cent of homicides are committed by people who have not been diagnosed with a mental health problem".

scottishmummy Thu 23-May-13 21:43:50

no,there's no surely about it.youre imposing your value belief that violence= mental illness
one can undertake heinous acts and not be mentally unwell
humans are capable of great good,and dreadful depravity

kim147 Thu 23-May-13 21:44:14

Lots of heinous acts are carried out everyday in Syria and other countries at war. Lots of heinous acts were carried out in both World Wars.

People can do awful things when they are committed to a cause.

squeakytoy Thu 23-May-13 21:45:39

They are not insane, or nutters. They have an agenda. They carried out their agenda.

In some parts of the world, they will be classed as heroes. sad

WineNot Thu 23-May-13 21:48:29

Not all terrorists have mental health issues in the same way that not all terrorists are Muslim.

Odd on a site with such strong attitudes on discrimination of any type that you have to point this out to someone.

scottishmummy Thu 23-May-13 21:55:07

mental illnesses such as postnatal depression,bi-polar,ptsd are they all nutters too?
im uncomfortable with this on mn,the knee jerk response that devianr behaviour=mental illness

poppycock6 Thu 23-May-13 21:56:46

I have not said 'mental illness'. What I'm trying to say is that to commit such a heinous crime such as what happened yesterday, you cannot be in a healthy state of mind at that point. No 'normal' person could think that hacking someone to death with a machete is the right thing to do. Brainwashed springs to mind.

sweetestcup Thu 23-May-13 21:57:35

Surely, to commit a heinous act you obviously aren't in a normal state of mind

Well we all can have different states of mind - doesn't make us mentally ill though. The use of the word nutter is very offensive to people with mental health problems, who are more of a risk to themselves than others when it comes down top it. Theres a whole thread on here about how racist/offensive people can be because of this atrocity towards Muslims - yet its ok to say the perpetrators are nutters??

Finding it really hard to see why some people are struggling to think these men are terrorists, if it was carried out with some religious and political message then I think it is terrorism.

scottishmummy Thu 23-May-13 22:00:06

no.youre still imposing your value belief not normal.so called nutter/terrorist doesn't=insane
you really don't grasp,one can perpetrate heinous act and be of
Sound mind
thers no progression from heinous act,to mental illness

LEMisdisappointed Thu 23-May-13 22:13:55

I'm with scottish mummy on this one - I have a MH problem does that make me a "nutter" or a potential killer??

Also - listen to the news, you'll get more information rather than from your college mates/colleagues or bingo buddies - The two men who did this were known to the security authorities already. Whether they were part of a terrorist cell or not is where the questions lie, is it part of something bigger - I pray that it isn't, but it was without question an act of terrorism. If you are saying they are "nutters" and have MH issues then i assume you don't want them to be punished in any way?

ConferencePear Thu 23-May-13 22:17:47

Could it be just an act of extreme racists ?

poppycock6 Thu 23-May-13 22:32:37

This is why I don't like posting on MN very often. You contribute to a discussion and suddenly what you've said is twisted and the next thing you're accused of offending a list of people!
It isn't mental illness and I never said it was. I use the term 'insane' here because to commit such an atrocity, you are totally out of touch with reality. If you looked at your thoughts clearly, you would think what the fck am I doing? This isn't right etc. But sadly, this doesn't happen with some people and I guess those who have been brainwashed would find it even more difficult to come to their senses.

MummytoKatie Thu 23-May-13 22:34:59

They want to see themselves as terrorists or freedom fighters. For this reason I choose to see them as murderers or just plain mad. I have no respect for them so I will not respect how they want to be labelled.

Startail Thu 23-May-13 22:47:04

YANBU, I've just turned a great long piece on the radio off.

Too much analysis just fans the flames on both sides.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now