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to think it was a nutter not a terrorist attack?

(92 Posts)
Corygal Thu 23-May-13 20:36:40

Because that's what we all say at Lambeth College evening class, with most students coming from Woolwich. No one thinks for a minute the killers had anything serious to do with Al Qaeda but were, most likely, mentally ill, personality disordered or just plain old murderers.

What we do think is that the media has not considered this possibility, and of course now the racism and anti-muslim schtick gets another go.

AuntieStella Thu 23-May-13 20:38:11

I don't think anyone's linking them to AQ.

I am very happy to agree they are plain old murderers.

ThreeDudesOnABus Thu 23-May-13 20:39:44

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck? It's a duck.

EglantinePrice Thu 23-May-13 20:40:43

I agree. And/or had taken something.

NoobyNoob Thu 23-May-13 20:41:58

This came up today at work too. Agree that it isn't a terrorist attack

landofsoapandglory Thu 23-May-13 20:42:02

I don't think there would be Cobra meetings, and the PM wouldn't have flown back from Paris if it was just a nutter TBH.

BrianButterfield Thu 23-May-13 20:42:12

They were known to MI5 and have links with radical Islamist/jihad groups, though. I doubt the police and the media just 'think' it's a terrorist act.

AuntieStella Thu 23-May-13 20:42:58

To expand on my last:

a) not all terrorists are AQ (which is a very loose franchise anyhow)

b) you can be no a plain old murderer and a terrorist; neither the terms not what they describe are mutually exclusive

edam Thu 23-May-13 20:43:05

It's not the media, it's Cobra and the government. They don't call meetings of Cobra without reason, you know.

Yes they were clearly very angry, disturbed and irrational individuals but they do seem to have been inspired by Islamist terror groups and they are terrorists in that their aim was to use violence to cause terror for a political purpose.

rhinestone Thu 23-May-13 20:43:33

I don't think anyone's linking them to AQ.

Well actually the suspects themselves have linked themselves to the philosophy and beliefs of Al Qaeda by the things they said whilst carrying out the attack, i.e. the stuff about getting out of 'Muslim' lands. So fairly straightforward really!

And they have links to Anjem Choudhary, the extremist preacher.

TidyDancer Thu 23-May-13 20:43:53

It doesn't have to be linked to AQ to be a terrorist attack.

They murdered in the name of terrorism is the way I would put it.

ProphetOfDoom Thu 23-May-13 20:43:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AuntieStella Thu 23-May-13 20:44:54

They call COBRA for all sorts of things that need a fast response. These are often security related, but can be things like foot and mouth, and other disease outbreaks.

if it was a nutter then they/he would have carried on assaulting the people in the area during the time it took the police to arrive.
This young man was targeted.May he rest in peace and his family find some crumb of comfort in the outpouring of thoughts from the public.

NoobyNoob Thu 23-May-13 20:46:06

Without meaning to sound like a half-wit and I really am asking a valid question - but if it was a terrorist attack wouldn't they have killed half the people that turned up to help?

Isn't that what terrorist do?

AuntieStella Thu 23-May-13 20:46:10

The suspects have aligned themselves with an extremist viewpoint, but not AQ.

kim147 Thu 23-May-13 20:46:20

It might not have been an "official" attack ordered by Al Qaeda but I do think the people knew what they were doing. I also think they believed in the message they were trying to send and were committed to their hatred of the Army and what is happening in Afghanistan.

Does that make them "mentally ill"? I don't think so - I think it makes them committed to something they believe in and people who have been radicalised.

That is really scary - you can't predict it.

rhinestone Thu 23-May-13 20:46:40

By the way, am chuckling at the notion that a Lambeth College evening class has a great insight into the motivation and plans of the suspects!

Best hurry home as no doubt MI5 is trying to get in touch to ask if you can all help them out, what with your incredible geo-political insights and everything!

BrianButterfield Thu 23-May-13 20:46:48

The level of coverage is to do with the fact that lone/paired attacks from radicalised people are rare and this type is unknown in this country until now, thus posing a new and difficult to beat threat. You have a chance of stopping someone making a bomb as they leave a trail of evidence but how can you detect a threat like this?

needaholidaynow Thu 23-May-13 20:47:02

Shouldn't it be classed as treason? I mean, the murderers are British aren't they, and murdered someone who's job it is to defend the country in which they live? Nothing but a cold blooded killing done to try and make some sort of political point. He didn't deserve it, no matter how much anyone tries to justify their actions yesterday.

Lock them up!

WineNot Thu 23-May-13 20:51:44

Where's the line between 'nutter' biscuit and 'terrorist attack'?

Number of people killed?
Method by which they are murdered?

geologygirl Thu 23-May-13 20:52:11

AQ is not the only islamist/terrorist group. There are plenty of others that they could be linked to.

Oswin Thu 23-May-13 20:53:06

Two more people have apparently been arrested connected to yesterday's murder. Isn't the definition of terrorist basicly attempting to cause terror?

rhinestone Thu 23-May-13 20:53:37

The line is it wasn't a random attack committed by a person with mental health problems.

This was planned and targeted and utilised extreme violence to draw attention to a religious and political philosophy.

AuntieStella Thu 23-May-13 20:57:13

No, it's not number of people killed. Targeted assassination is a long-standing tool of the terrorist (IRA and ETA giving many recent examples of it). Nor is it method. Nor isn't necessarily killing (think of plane hijackings)

You have to look to intent - and also to effect. It is to make people feel unsafe. It is to highlight your cause.

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