Am I being unreasonable to want to see if I could do it better?

(46 Posts)
KhaosandKalamity Tue 21-May-13 04:36:03

As long as a decade ago it was shown that girls in Papua New Guinea were hitting puberty as early as 6 or 7. This was due to the fact that their diet is mostly chicken. The birds that they ate were fed hormone filled feed to ensure that they grew faster and bigger than they normally would. These hormones were then ingested by the girls and had much the same effect on them as they had on the chickens. These same hormones are fed to chickens all over the world (please don't jump down my throat for this, I know not every country has hormonally accelerated chickens, but those that do are spread across the globe, hence all over the world). While the effects are not as obvious as in Papua New Guinea, because most people do not have such a chicken intensive diet, the average age for females to hit puberty is dropping.

The white lining inside tin cans contains chemicals which can enter in to the food in the tin, this Bisphenol A, mimics female estrogen and can have serious consequences for both males and females. Parabens which can be found in most hygiene products also have hormonal effects, which can raise the risk of cancers.

Am I being unreasonable to think that GMO is the least of our worries when chemicals and hormones, in not just our food but our cleaning products, shampoo, and the containers we use to store our food have been repeatedly proven to be dangerous and are still not being addressed by our nannies in parliament. Is it unreasonable to think that if you care that much then do the required research and avoid those products which pose a risk, rather than scaremongering with half formed facts and expecting people miles away (who can afford to buy organic anyway, so don't really care) to ban them?

gordyslovesheep Tue 21-May-13 10:27:54

erm I take responsibility for it since they are my kids - again you can't stand the fact people aren't as irrationally outraged as you!!!!!!!!!!!

ShadeofViolet Tue 21-May-13 10:27:55

I dont expect anyone to take responsibility for it.

I also dont understand the point you are trying to make.

KhaosandKalamity Tue 21-May-13 10:30:56

::Repeatedly bangs head against wall:: Thank you all for this lovely induction to the forums, I think I shall go drink some genetically modified fertilizer, hell I may even throw in some hormones and drink it from a lined tin can. I will leave you with my original question copied and pasted from my OP.

Is it unreasonable to think that if you care that much then do the required research and avoid those products which pose a risk, rather than scaremongering with half formed facts and expecting people miles away (who can afford to buy organic anyway, so don't really care) to ban them?

PatriciaHolm Tue 21-May-13 10:34:06

If you are going to post things like "As long as a decade ago it was shown that girls in Papua New Guinea were hitting puberty as early as 6 or 7. This was due to the fact that their diet is mostly chicken", you need to be able to back it up.

The vast majority of people don't have access to research journals, or peer reviews, or even the relevant industry news. They will do what I've just done - spend a short amount of time searching online in public sources - and come up with nothing. In fact the only relevant thing I found was that girls in PNG have traditionally reached puberty at one of the oldest ages in the world.

Asking people to do their own research is fine, but scattergunning random statements with no backup is far more likely to make people think "oh no another tin foil hatted loon" than "oh, that looks interesting, I'll spend more time looking into that."

gordyslovesheep Tue 21-May-13 10:35:26

No it is not unreasonable - don't flounce - your timing was just spectacularly off grin

ShadeofViolet Tue 21-May-13 10:36:13

But the general consensus on the thread is that people dont care.

So as you are the one that seems to care so much about it, maybe you should enlighten us with some of the research to back up your claims. Then we may be more inclined to care because we are informed about it.

WIBU to come one here and start getting my knickers in a twist about the plight of the polar bears, then when asked for some more information, tell people they can do their own research.

Dawndonna Tue 21-May-13 10:41:59

They might care if some peer reviewed research were provided, but no, we're all to be treated like children and have to look it up ourselves. That way we'll remember!
hmm

But is there DNA in the chicken?

KentishWine Tue 21-May-13 11:10:40

...it was shown that girls in Papua New Guinea were hitting puberty as early as 6 or 7
Where was this shown? I have done a quick but comprehensive search on academic citation indexes and can find no such reports.

The birds that they ate were fed hormone filled feed to ensure that they grew faster and bigger than they normally would.
Again, where was this shown? No evidence of this in the academic literature. What hormones are you referring to?

These same hormones are fed to chickens all over the world
What hormones? Anyhow, this is not something you have to worry about if you are in the EU (and OZ and USA etc) as steroids for growth promotion of food-producing animals is banned

While the effects are not as obvious as in Papua New Guinea, because most people do not have such a chicken intensive diet, the average age for females to hit puberty is dropping
There is certainly evidence that the average age of puberty is dropping, but researchers do not agree on the cause. Some say it is because children are getting fatter, some say it's because they are less active, and the list goes on. Endocrine disrupters are only one possible suggestion out of hundreds of theories. I have never seen chicken on the list of possible factors. I agree that this is an area that is worth investigation for lots of reasons (e.g early puberty in girls has been found to be associated with a higher risk for breast cancer) but it's important to apply logic and rigour to the research.

white lining inside tin cans contains chemicals which can enter in to the food in the tin, this Bisphenol A
The science on BPA is inconclusive. If you want to avoid BPA just in case, that is absolutely your choice. You could even help others to make informed choices by directing them to appropriate evidence. Stating that BPA has serious consequences for both males and females is scaremongering and inaccurate because at the moment the evidence does not say this is the case.

Parabens which can be found in most hygiene products also have hormonal effects, which can raise the risk of cancers
Again, there is no evidence that this is true. Unless you know something that hundreds of scientists are unaware of?

Some more info from Cornell University on these 'chicken hormones'

Because the whole point was why are people not researching these things for themselves.

I don't give a crap what your point was. You made positive claims about facts, the onus is on YOU to back that up with research. Why I want to waste my time researching shit some random person says on the internet with no proof that it's even bloody real?

hopkinette Tue 21-May-13 12:23:37

Is this just a really long-winded way of telling us that you're a libertarian?

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Tue 21-May-13 12:39:05

Why are people so angry? confused Ok the OP didn't exactly back her claims up....but people are SO defensive it's weird.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Tue 21-May-13 12:42:55

I just got this from the Food Standards Agency website

Are food-producing animals given growth promoting treatments?
There are several types of veterinary treatments that can have a growth-promoting effect if administered to animals for that purpose.

These include:

hormonal growth promoters (HGPs), sometimes referred to as ‘hormones’
beta-agonists
antibiotic growth promoters
The use of antibiotic growth-promoting feed additives has been phased out in the EU – this was completed in January 2006 because of concerns about the potential spread of antibiotic resistance. Further information can be found on the VMD’s website.

The use of HGPs and beta-agonists for growth promotion is banned in the EU. This includes a ban on steroids for increasing the growth rate of animals

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Tue 21-May-13 12:45:42

So..the OP is wrong about the chickens "All over the world" being fed hormones which is comforting. Banned here since 2006. But are all our chickens from the EU? Do they ever import them from countries where the hormones are not banned?

KentishWine Tue 21-May-13 13:02:40

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie I imagine it would be impossible for farmers who do not comply with any of the EU/US/OZ/NZ standards to find an outlet for their food.

Hormones in chicken were banned primarily because they did not work.

There is little evidence they can cause cancer.

Steroid hormones are in fruits, vegetables, beans, peas, and cereal grains. Argghhh!

zippey Tue 21-May-13 13:16:28

As long as a decade ago it was shown that girls in Papua New Guinea were hitting puberty as early as 6 or 7. This was due to the fact that their diet is mostly chicken.

What about puberty in boys? Or do they not eat as much chicken?

Saying things without backing them up isnt going to get you very far.

KentishWine Tue 21-May-13 13:24:34

Why are people so angry? I'm not angry but I do find it annoying when people cite as fact rumour, gossip and scientific misunderstanding. That I find weird.

LarvalFormOfOddSock Tue 21-May-13 13:26:41

OP, you say you're not going to link to any evidence as we should all do our own research.

So, each one of us should have to go out and buy a few thousand chickens, feed them diets containing the chemicals you think are harmful and feed a few thousand a natural diet over a number of years to provide a control? Then we'll have to feed the resulting meat to another group of mammals....

On top of all this we have to run another few trials researching the effects of eating tinned food and the same for parabens.

Wow. You're expecting a lot from us.

Or is it just that all these things have already been researched by independent and qualified professionals time and time again and they have all been shown to be safe (or perhaps just not happening as in the chicken feed issue)?

Just because you read it on naturalnews or saw it on youtube doesn't make it true. It must be nice to feel nutritionally, intellectually and ecologically superior to everyone else though.

LarvalFormOfOddSock Tue 21-May-13 13:28:28

Oh, in case I wasn't clear. YABU and scare-mongering.

GoodbyePorkPie Tue 21-May-13 14:18:13

"So, each one of us should have to go out and buy a few thousand chickens, feed them diets containing the chemicals you think are harmful and feed a few thousand a natural diet over a number of years to provide a control? Then we'll have to feed the resulting meat to another group of mammals...."

I think the OP is actually suggesting we sit in our pants and Google 'hormones + chicken + puberty' and then read the results, which will be in the form of online magazines called rabidvegans.com.

LarvalFormOfOddSock Tue 21-May-13 14:25:05

Quite! To quote Hopkinette upthread...I love that googling is now "research."

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