Won't some please think of the bigots!? <clutches pearls>

(60 Posts)

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10067062/Gay-marriage-could-stop-Christians-becoming-teachers-or-doctors-church-leaders.html Here.]]

Bigots may be put off from working in certain careers for fear that if they share their bigoted views whilst carrying out their job, it will not be tolerated.

The poor dears!

cory Tue 21-May-13 14:23:54

Bullying can take many forms.

Threatening the loss of job is one.

Though there it would seem to depend on whether the demands of your employer were reasonable or not. A Muslim male academic who refused to work for a female HoD would be threatened with job loss and no reference to religion would save him. If I had refused to teach the student I knew to be a neo-Nazi, I would have been threatened by job loss, and quite right too.

But certainly threatening job loss can be a form of bullying.

Screaming loudly that you are persecuted when you are not can be another one.

Circulating false tales of PC and persecution can be another (cf. the famous Wintervaal story which still resurfaces every Christmas).

Abra1d Tue 21-May-13 13:06:07

You didn't actually refer to the case in detail: actually I agree with you in that instance.

But bullying can and sometimes does involve intimidating people (ie, by threatening them with the loss of a job).

MarmaladeTwatkins Mon 20-May-13 12:10:23

"My mother was a midwife. As a Catholic she could not help carry out abortions. Back in the more liberal (seriously) times she worked, this was never an issue. How ironic that those who are bigot witch-hunters think that it is acceptable to bully people like this now."

Bullying?!

I am SICK of this word being bandied about when what it is actually referring to is nothing of the sort. It undermines ACTUAL bullying, IMO.

The case I was referring to... the catholic midwives were not asked to carry out the termination procedures, but to provide care before/after the procedure, which they refused to do. Ridiculous.

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 20-May-13 12:03:18

shiny new tablet sorry (you can see why it would be wasted on me !)

ubik Mon 20-May-13 11:59:44

"It's like so much of this Christian persecution shouting: when you look into it you find somebody behaving like a prat. As far as I understand it that is not the face of a martyr"

yy^ to this

I wish I had a 'like' button.

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 20-May-13 11:59:02

Could have been worse, DH treated us really as it is all shiny and new and winking at me himself to a lovely new ipad yesterday and l was thinking of test running it for him today. grin

There's a really depressing magazine/newsletter thing that we get sent, from a group called something like Barnabas, whinging about how Christians are being persecuted in certain countries. I read the first one that arrived, because I think yes that does happen, and it's important. But then I read through some of their examples - would you believe a Christian was being "persecuted" for standing up in a mosque in an Islamic country and telling people about his beliefs? In a f*ing mosque! If a Muslim stood up in a church in this country and did that, he'd be hustled out and the police called if he wouldn't go quietly. Would they count that as persecution? - somehow I don't think so.

Makes you weep.

Specially when there genuinely are people being persecuted for their beliefs, and they all get lumped together with the prats because there are just so many noisy prats shouting in the tabloids about how terrible it is that they can't be as rude to people as they used to.

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 20-May-13 11:53:18

Cory

'As a married woman I expect to be able to go the surgery as Mrs Cory without getting a lecture on the immorality of the marriage service by any atheist nurse who may be taking my blood pressure or peering up my backside'

Where should l send my claim for a new keyboard?

grin grin

cory Mon 20-May-13 11:40:58

It's like so much of this Christian persecution shouting: when you look into it you find somebody behaving like a prat. As far as I understand it that is not the face of a martyr.

infamouspoo Mon 20-May-13 11:40:23

beat me too it Fanjo wink

I'm having visitors over to see my DD, so I'll be back later.

cory Mon 20-May-13 11:39:47

Sorry cross-posted. Even less defensible then; they wouldn't organise for others to provide for the care they didn't want to provide.

Abra1d Mon 20-May-13 11:38:48

Sorry, crosspost there--yes not delegating staff doesn't seem reasonable to me, either.

cory Mon 20-May-13 11:38:47

"No, telling midwives they should 'leave' if they can't carry out abortions is bullying. Quite different from telling them to keep personal views personal."

Has this actually happened though? My understanding is that the midwives wanted to stop providing aftercare after an abortion.

In which case, would you expect a teetotal nurse to refuse to stitch up someone who had fallen over whilst drunk? Or a pacifist nurse to refuse to care for a soldier? Or a nurse who believed in chastity refusing to treat STDs?

Abra1d Mon 20-May-13 11:38:07

So, not caring for them AFTER they'd undergone abortion? Oh, see what you mean, that is a bit different, yes.

ubik Mon 20-May-13 11:38:01

sorry 'the' story -

ubik Mon 20-May-13 11:37:35

there story was here

"NHS GGC, which is contesting their action, said it recognised their right not to participate in terminations under the terms of the Abortion Act.

But it maintains that it decided correctly that requiring them to delegate staff to nurse women undergoing medical terminations and to supervise and support staff undertaking that duty was lawful."

It seems these midwives were unwilling to delegate staff to care for the women having terminations.

hmm

FanjoForTheMammaries Mon 20-May-13 11:35:31

It's PC gorn mad wink

ubik Mon 20-May-13 11:34:27

I think nurses and midwives have always been able to opt out of aspects of their work according to their conscience - ie contraception, abortions, pre/post counselling etc

The difference in the midwives case quoted above was that the midwives wanted to stop caring for women who had undergone abortion full stop which does seem unreasonable to me.

Abra1d Mon 20-May-13 11:34:23

No, telling midwives they should 'leave' if they can't carry out abortions is bullying. Quite different from telling them to keep personal views personal.

Dawndonna Mon 20-May-13 11:34:00

ad hominem argument isn't really an argument, is it Somebloke

cory Mon 20-May-13 11:33:11

I am sure there are plenty of jobs for midwives even today which do not involve carrying abortions, but I would say that the onus is on the jobseeker to make sure the job they apply for is one they can carry out without compromising their conscience.

Asking people to keep their personal views personal and do their job, is now classed as bullying apparently. hmm

Binkybix Mon 20-May-13 11:29:51

That women on R4 was outrageous! I was shouting at the radio (too much time on hands whist on mat leave).

Abra1d Mon 20-May-13 11:28:28

'Conversely, I don't agree when people in a profession use their religion as a reason for abstaining from necessary parts of the job i.e the midwives who refused to carry out work pertaining to abortions, on the basis of their religion.

If your views, due to religion or even just personal beliefs, prevent you from performing your job well, you leave.'


My mother was a midwife. As a Catholic she could not help carry out abortions. Back in the more liberal (seriously) times she worked, this was never an issue. How ironic that those who are bigot witch-hunters think that it is acceptable to bully people like this now.

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