To think that just because I'm pro-life doesn't mean I hate feminism?

(813 Posts)
TinkerSailerSoldierSpy Sat 18-May-13 12:38:25

Friend and I were having a discussion, I'm 18 weeks pregnant, and it was a bit of an inconvenient surprise, considering I've started a new job just 2 months ago.I mentioned that it wasn't going to look good, me taking maternity leave after not even being there for a year, and she suggested perhaps considering there was no dad on the scene and my new job, I should terminate. I felt a bit uncomfortable but told her that I could never do that as I'm pro life and view it as killing a child. She then proceeded to stare at me like I had an extra head and ask me why in a shocked voice. I explained my reasons and views and we got into an arguement about it, the usual stuff, what about in cases of rape and if the woman's not financially able to support the child, to which I countered but is it right for a woman to get an abortion just because she wants to continue a party lifestyle? And she stormed out the house shouting that I was misogynistic and women have the right to their own bodies. Let me be clear, I certainly would never stop anyone from making their decision about an abortion, I just can't seem to get over the idea of it, it repulses me. But I wouldn't judge a woman who got one. I understand the other viewpoint but I can't agree with it myself, and in all other respects I would say i was very liberal about womans rights. When I mentioned it to other friend she said it was my views but they were quite outdated and misogynistic. Are they? I need advice, should I apologize to friend A?

LastTangoInDevonshire Sat 18-May-13 12:42:03

* to which I countered but is it right for a woman to get an abortion just because she wants to continue a party lifestyle?*

And you answered ^^ to the question about rape and not financially able to support a child? Really???

Yes, your views are outdated.

LadyVoldemort Sat 18-May-13 12:44:21

Tough one. I'm personally pro choice, I do think everyone (not just women) should have the right to decide what they do with their body.

It sounds as if your friend is quite passionate about her views. Were you being antagonistic?
I don't think you need apologise for your opinion, but maybe if you were being a bit holier than thou towards her you could apologise for that. You don't both need to agree with each other obviously.

LadyVoldemort Sat 18-May-13 12:46:27

That's the bit that I was a bit hmm about as well LastTango. It's nothing to do with a raped woman wanting to continue a 'party lifestyle', it's the fact that she should be able to choose whether she wants to have her rapists child! I wonder how you would feel if that happened to you?

Sparhawk Sat 18-May-13 12:48:15

You responded to the question, 'what about rape' with, 'but is it right for a woman to get an abortion just because she wants to continue a party lifestyle'?

Very misogynistic and disgusting.

gordyslovesheep Sat 18-May-13 12:49:26

it is possible to be 100% pro life without being anti women - but saying things like 'continuing with her party lifestyle' seems to convey an element of judging the woman rather than protecting the fetus - which probably made your friend a bit pissed off

if your anti abortion stance is fueled by the reasons women have them - then it's anti women rather than pro life

I had a pro life friend who argued that if society valued women and children then all the support a woman would ever need would be there and she wouldn;t need to terminate - a little wishy washy but not anti women at all

Yes you should apologise. Your views on women pregnant through rape are what's repulsive. Pro-life arguments are incompatible with feminism.

You are pro forced birth - how is that compatible with feminism?

BabyMakesTheBoobiesGoLeaky Sat 18-May-13 12:51:58

You actually sound like you veer more towards pro-choice but have remnants of anti-abortion rhetoric.

Sparhawk Sat 18-May-13 12:52:09

Denying women, and only women, the right to control their own body is absolutely anti-woman.

You really think women have terminations because they like partying? Really? Really?

gordyslovesheep Sat 18-May-13 12:53:13

yes - my last point not anti women at all is incorrect - I meant her motivations where not coming from an anti woman stance - but I agree with Sparhawk x

BabyMakesTheBoobiesGoLeaky Sat 18-May-13 12:53:44

Abortion is not your choice but it is (and rightly so) a choice for others,or have I picked your post up wronglyconfused ?

IneedAyoniNickname Sat 18-May-13 12:54:13

I was raped by a family member.
I then had a abortion.
I didn't do it to continue a party lifestyle, in fact I didn't lead that life beforehand.
I did it because I couldn't face a pregnancy and birth from incestuous rape at the age of 16.
Sometimes I still feel guilty about it, even though it was 12 years ago. sad

Your views are repulsive.

Sunnywithshowers Sat 18-May-13 12:54:47

For me, being pro-choice means letting other women decide what to do with their pregnancy, whether or not I would personally make that choice. So, in a way, the fact that you said that you wouldn't stop someone choosing to have an abortion, and wouldn't judge them, despite not ever wanting one yourself, means you're pro-choice. You've just decided it's not for you. It's okay to be repulsed by it.

However, I'd like to pick up on the 'party lifestyle' point - that does make your opinion sound somewhat misogynistic. It sounds like you're judging the woman having an abortion - and conflicts with the point you made about not judging.

I don't think that any woman should be forced to continue an unwanted pregnancy, whatever their reasons. Conversely, I think any woman who wants to continue their pregnancy should be able to do so - I'm surprised your friend suggested a termination, simply because I think it's a bit insensitive.

samandi Sat 18-May-13 12:55:21

Considering the impacts pregnancy and childbirth have on women, I personally don't view a pro-life stance as compatible with feminism. I also find it odd that you state you wouldn't judge a woman for having a termination but then trot out the somewhat worn cliche about "party lifestyles". I've never heard a decent pro-life argument and this OP is one of the worst.

Sparhawk Sat 18-May-13 12:55:37

I did think you meant that Gordy

I do love that logic though, women are not responsible enough to choose what happens to their body, so they should be forced to responsible for a baby. If a woman is that irresponsible, according to you, that she'd want an abortion so she can go out partying, why do you think she'll be responsible enough to look after a small helpless baby?

AllYoursBabooshka Sat 18-May-13 12:55:55

Your friend really shouldn't go around suggesting abortions if she isn't prepared to hear opinions which are different from hers.

I am rigidly pro choice but it seems she did turn the conversation into a bit of a debate, very insensitive.

It was not the the time nor place, you are newly pregnant and have made your decision. She should have left it at that.

BabyMakesTheBoobiesGoLeaky Sat 18-May-13 12:56:18

And as a little aside Ireland is having an abortion debate atm and have brought in a group who regret having abortions and ignored a group forced to travel for abortions because of foetal abnormality. That is forced birthing at its finest.

StuffezLaYoni Sat 18-May-13 12:56:48

I had a termination because I never want children. No matter what contraception I use, I risk pregnancy every time I have sex and am grateful to the laws of this land that I was able to access this procedure.
You say you'd never judge a woman for having a termination but the tone of your post implies otherwise. Why aren't you able to describe yourself as Pro Choice, but know that personally you wouldn't choose to have a termination?

Picturepuncture Sat 18-May-13 12:58:11

I was with you up until the sentence about rape and party lifestyles.

If it happened like that, then that's grim.

I would say I am neither anti women or judgemental but I don't agree with abortion either. I couldn't do it as I feel it would be akin to murder. I totally understand some women are placed into awful situations through no fault of their own, and I also realise that legally all women have the right to choose so I don't judge ( I also believe I have no right to judge anyone about anything).

skippedtheripeoldmango Sat 18-May-13 12:58:49

Your countering argument probably tipped the balance with your friend: basically you completely ignored the fact that expecting a woman who was raped to go ahead with a pregnancy is repulsive if that woman really doesn't want to.

However, to me the threshold question to anyone who was 'pro-life' would be: do you think your personal beliefs should be foisted on every other woman who may have a different opinion/position/set of circumstances than you? If the answer is yes, then in my mind that makes that person a misogynist. No one has the right to take away someone else's basic human rights (and control over your reproductive life is a basic human right) based simply on their own personal beliefs.

AnyaKnowIt Sat 18-May-13 12:59:11

So please explain why its ok to 'kill' a child if that child was conceived through rape?

TinkerSailerSoldierSpy Sat 18-May-13 12:59:14

Regarding the party comment, that part of the arguement was about whether it should be universally legalised, not individual cases. I'm not a militant pro life kind of person, and I agree that a woman should not be forced to have a rapists child, however easy access to an abortion for a woman who just can't be arsed to be a mother bothered me. i dont know, it's hard to draw the line I suppose.

Fairylea Sat 18-May-13 13:00:04

Your views are all wrong.

I don't know one woman who's had an abortion to "continue a party lifestyle". How ridiculous.

It's ok to say personally you would never have an abortion. That's fine. But it's very naive to apply that to everyone and all circumstances.

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