To think instead of paying for DD's schooling we could give her 250K cash for her 18th birthday?(191 Posts)
DD is about to turn 3. I have looked at on-line info for local state schools and don't like what I see. For three of the nearest primary schools where I've managed to locate statistics, two have over 90% of children with English as an additional language, and one over 80%. The schools all have bottom or (rarely) second-from-bottom quintile performance in all subjects, in Ofsted reports. All local state schools are likely to be similar, because they are teaching the same demographic, children of local social-housing tenants, mostly Bangladeshi. (From long experience living in the area, virtually all non-social-housing parents leave the area once they have children.)
We don't want to move because we are near DW's job.
DW is hoping to get DD into the 14th nearest state school (which is only 0.7miles away) using their religious criteria. That school has excellent Ofsted results, "only" two-thirds of pupils have English as an additional language, though apparently one third arrive speaking no English at all.
There is also a just-opened foundation secondary which might be an OK option later.
I suspect we won't get into the good state primary school and will end up private all the way, which we can afford. There is a top girl's school nearby, and the fees are actually slightly less than the 15K a year we spend on nursery care at the moment.
I've calculated that if we don't send DD to private schools for 13 years, and invest the money instead, with average luck (5% return) we'd be able to give her about £250K cash instead.
The title question is mostly rhetorical. I expect that DD will not end up in the sub-par schools, whatever we decide. I'm just a bit bemused by the situation and thought I'd give you all something to comment on.
But OP, you are not really facing a tough dilemma are you?
You think the schools near you are shit, you have the money to pay for private ...so I am not seeing where the struggle is?
I don't have any hang ups about earnings, but I do feel that this thread has the air of me complaining that my Jimmy Choos are a bit tight
I am very cross with you still, LondonMan, for the sneery comments about immigrants.
But I have sent my DCs to private schools, and the way I rationalise this in terms of your OP is as follows:
1. I could save the money that I would otherwise have spent on school fees, and buy them their first flat. This is one way of spending £250k. This, however, is SPENDING for them rather than INVESTING in them.
2. Or I could spend the money on their schooling, prepare them for life, and invest in them. As people, free to make their own decisions, and free to become trapeze artists if this is indeed what they want to do.
I chose (2).
dont write your dd off OP. You're assuming she'll need the rarified spoon fed atmosphere of a private school but its more than likely she will be perfectly fine. I dont live far from you and 5 of mine have passed through those so called 'failing schools'. Involved parents, a decent mix etc. 3 of mine are at Oxbridge despite the social housing and EAL.
Man up OP.
250k is not what it will cost you to provide adequate education
250k is what it will cost you to keep your dd away from the community she lives in
Wuldric The OP has not made any sneery comments about immigrants. He has just said he is concerned about the education in his local state schools and one indicator of that is the lack of English as a first language. He and his wife are both immigrants, for goodness sake.
To prove the point, the OP is considering CLSG which is very international and cosmopolitan - with a large number of immigrants - and he is quite happily considering that. It is an excellent school and much better than any of his local schools whilst being equally culturally diverse.
"My dc goes to school in this area, and we are part of this statistics. But all are polite, and well behaved, holiday in Dubai and the St Lucia, and rent Villas in France."
^ ^ You say it like it's a good thing but that would really bother me: people who have cash for holidays in Dubai and St Lucia choosing not to spend money on education instead, when clearly they could, signals that their priorities are all wrong, doesn't it? I can't imagine splashing out on long haul flights if the price I paid was to send my kids to an educationally poorer school than I could do if I forewent my holidays.
"You say it like it's a good thing but that would really bother me: people who have cash for holidays in Dubai and St Lucia choosing not to spend money on education instead, when clearly they could, signals that their priorities are all wrong, doesn't it? I can't imagine splashing out on long haul flights if the price I paid was to send my kids to an educationally poorer school than I could do if I forewent my holidays."
I would have thought that depends
a) on whether the school their children does attend is providing an inferior education (cheaper doesn't always mean worse)
b) whether the parents spend their money on other ways of supporting their children's education outside of school
Everything doesn't have to be provided by the school. The school I attended was fairly mediocre, but my parents put a lot of time, effort and money into providing enriching activities out of school. They were highly educated people; I learnt more from them than from any teacher I've ever had. I don't see why my opportunities to learn extra languages, instruments etc were less valuable because they did not take place on school premises, nor do I see why my parents cared less about my education because they took me places themselves rather than send me to the kind of school that would have taken me places.
But the private school OP favours is highly selective. If your DD fails the entrance exam, then you might as well spend the money you save on holidays in exotic places.
What a lively thread! Well done
I had one main point to make, which you now seem to have worked out for yourself: Although the lack of English would be likely to hold back results for the first couple of years, most Asian-born parents respect education to a degree that's nearly been lost amongst the natives. They'll be pushing their children to achieve, meaning that once the language difficulties have been overcome your DD will be in something of a hothouse.
I went to a single-sex, selective grammar. It's been 70% 'Asian' for about 20 years now: a reflection of parental dedication, as the demographics of the area haven't changed in this time.
The fact that DD is, presumably, brown of skin could be helpful in terms of integration. I do, sadly, know some white children who were badly bullied in predominantly Anglo-Indian schools (they were the only white children.)
I quite like the buy-to-let idea for DD. After you and DW have kicked the bucket, she'll own two London properties. Lucky woman!
I think I know where you live; it's lovely! You could shift over to Blackheath/Greenwich for a more conventional environment ... but I'm not sure I'd bother; I reckon you should make any such choices based on personal preference, not schools.
I think you should move.You say you are more savers than spenders. This is really important. If you send dd to city of London girls, then she will be surrounded by girls who parents are much better off than you and this may have a detrimental affect on her. It may cause her to become more of a spender in future life! My DH was sent to an expensive boarding school but never felt he fitted in, despite his parents being fairly well off, because they were very stingy with money.
Again, I'd like to say that there's little point in your complaining about the problem, OP, if you refuse to be part of the solution. Your local state schools have a high proportion of kids with English as a Second Language precisely because people like you choose to move elsewhere and go private. That's entirely up to you, of course, but you have to right to complain about the supposed problem if you choose to perpetuate it.
I'd also say that, regardless of the rest of your income, private schools are extremely bad value as far as education is concerned. Never mind giving your daughter £250,000 - think of how you could spend that quarter of a million over her school life on individualised education opportunities, like tutors and advanced music lessons - it would knock a private education out the park. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but the threshold for what is considered a quality private education is actually very low - three or four As at A-level and some (quite unexeptional) level of extra-curricular achievement. That's actually a very low goal to set for a bright and well supported child when you consider the annual investment in the school. The only objective they deliver on is putting kids in a cloistered environment where their exposure to people from normal backgrounds is limited (this can obviously also be achieved by moving elsewhere, if that's what you really want).
So, yes, I do agree that, in terms of educational attainment, private schools are a massive waste of money, and most parents could do more to enhance their children's education by spending the fee equivalent in a targeted way.
I also agree with Skinnywhippet, private schools set certain expectations in terms of lifestyle, and if you really want your DD to pick up your saving habit, you might be better off investing in a catchment area, as other parents who bought there are more likely to have a similar financial outlook to you.
I also think that you are way off the mark when you describe your income as "above average". You know that it isn't above average, it's off the scale compared to ordinary people.
Heavens above you should send a child to a school full of ethnics or those in "social housing".
Racist and snobby.
For the record I went to a city comprehensive and then on to Cambridge University.....but I made sure to stay away from them pesky ethnics and riff raff.
I already PITY your child.
hopingnothopping I was trying to focus on the polar opposite to what the OP seemed to be focusing on...
Not everybody does that. As any area where house prices range from 600k to 3-4 million, there is bound to be people who do that. Whereas the rest of us drive French cars (as opposed to German or Japanese ) and holiday with our folks in Poland, Italy, Norway, Jamaica or take the odd Thomson/First Choice or caravaning holiday.
Isn't it terrible Noorny ! And to think so many who come from such scallywag backgrounds have medical degrees and the likes.. shocking!
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Op if I were you, I would leave London.
Buy a house in the country, and buy a pad near work for your wife to stay in during the week.
Use £450k on a country house, and £150k on a flat.
Staying in London for another 30 years after you retire because your wife thinks people look at her in a funny way, is just madness!!
Depending in your wife's job, and future working trends, she may be able to do 4 days in office, and work at home on Fridays.
Leave the madness that is the south east. We are in Wiltshire, 1hr 10 mins to Paddington from Chippenham, and lots of good schools and nice houses in your budget.
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