to think BAFTA have just let down disabled people??

(85 Posts)

I was horrified just now when the Paralympics coverage won a BAFTA. Ade the wheelchair athlete wasnt able to access the stage the same as the other winners. They were all stood there saying "Where is Ade??" and he suddenly appeared from the side of the stage. It wouldnt have taken much to put a ramp there.
I rather hoped that after Tanni Grey Thompson was left off the winners rostrum at the Sports Personality award a few years ago that things might improve. Apparently not!!!! hmm

LayMizzRarb Wed 15-May-13 20:37:26

Just a couple of things to add. I am disabled myself, and have been to that venue many times. They have step free access and really look after people with mobility requirements. Ramps were built so Ade could sit in the stalls. Having spoken to people involved with the production, To build a ramp to the stage, it would have to have to have a fairly long run as the stage is quite a height. You are only allowed a certain gradient with mobility ramps, to ensure user safety. The ramp would also have to be a certain width. The licence for the theatre is granted under certain conditions, one being that the walkways at the end of the row of seats are to be kept free of any obstructions to allow evacuation in an emergency. Blocking the end of rows with a ramp would breach fire regulations as it would impede swift exit for patrons in an emergency.
Wrt listed buildings and adaptations for those with disabilities, in law the the buildings do have precedent...

manicinsomniac Mon 13-May-13 23:08:53

Thanks for the thoughts.

It's interesting, I really was of the opinion that things were pretty good now (as in 'most people can access most buildings, that's great' sort of attitude.) Weirdly, I've never thought about having to use a different entrance as something that would cause upset. Good to think about.

SlowlorisIncognito Mon 13-May-13 21:27:35

I agree with your point to an extent manicinsomniac wrt listed buildings and the costs to businesses. However, I recently went to London with a friend with a broken ankle who didn't feel comfortable using escalators. It is amazing, well to me anyway, how inaccessable the tube is for someone not able to use an escalator.

I think all buildings where people need to go, rather than want to, like council buildings, courts, university buildings etc should be fully accessible to everyone, no excuses. I don't mean by this that places where people want to go should not be... but places people need to go definately ought to be.

Dawndonna Mon 13-May-13 18:37:26

Whilst I do realise that it's not practicable to change everything (and as an ex history lecturer would have to question it) it's a nice ideal. Being sensible, most stuff from the late 19 century could be changed reasonably easily.
The going round the back thing is awful, it does state that someone is somehow lesser, that we don't wish you to be seen entering our premises, that we don't wish to acknowledge your existence. It is degrading to have to be dragged through kitchens if you wish to go out for a meal. There is a lot more we could do to existing buildings but councils choose not to spend the money on doing so.

CloudsAndTrees Mon 13-May-13 18:06:49

Personally, I don't think it would be possible to make all buildings accessible without either making a business become unviable or changing what they are beyond all recognition.

But I do think every building that is open to the public should at least have to show that it is an issue they have looked into and they should have to have sound reasons as to why they cannot become fully accessible.

For me, alternative entrances aren't ok. They are sometimes an unavoidable inconvenience, but I don't like it at all. It's just too much like segregation.

The point about it being obvious that they would win if there was a ramp there is valid, but only because there wasn't a ramp there as a matter of course. If it had become the norm for steps to be accompanied by ramps or lifts, then it wouldn't have been obvious at all.

manicinsomniac Mon 13-May-13 17:58:21

Actually, I think Ade has made (or implied) a really good point there - if there was a ramp up then it would have been obvious that he was going to win the award thus spoiling the whole point of the nominations and announcement thing. I hadn't thought about that aspect of it.

DawnDonna (and others) - this might be a bit off topic but I wonder if I could ask you about a comment you made about the necessity to adapt all buildings for wheelchair use, even old ones. Do you feel that alternative entrances aren't ok?
I just can't see how old, listed, multi storey building could have that done? Certainly not without spending unbelievable amounts of money and spoiling some beautiful olf architecture. Maybe those two things shouldn't be enough to stop it happening but, I don't know, is step free access that isn't the main entrance so totally unacceptable?
What about things like the underground? Could it ever be possible to get all stations and trains accessible?

mrsjay Mon 13-May-13 17:45:32

happyscouse I just read back my post and I am sorry i said that about your nephew and you not having understanding that wasn't fair of me I just get a bit het up sometimes

mrsjay Mon 13-May-13 17:40:00

happyscouse nobody was getting offended on Ades behalf he is a grown man we were just pointing out that there was no ramp in view he had to go the long way round and just because you are an auntie of a disabled person doesn't mean you understand what it is like, we (disabled people) should not have to be 'other' or attended to or taken in the back way , because it is easier , I am much older than dawn daughter and I was saying the same things she did at 16 and tbh nothing much has changed,

Dawndonna your daughter sounds awesome

CloudsAndTrees Mon 13-May-13 17:32:50

Dawndonna, your dd has it spot on and I'm really pleased to see that she has this attitude.

Like you say, so many people who have disabilities don't want to make a fuss and don't want people going out of their way to accommodate them, which is completely understandable and reasonable. But, and it's a big but, sometimes, for their own good, they need to be able to deal with that feeling effectively to enable them to have the help they need. I'm not explaining this well so I hope someone will be able to interpret what I mean properly, but this feeling of not wanting to make a fuss, while admirable, is preventing people accessing stuff they need, even when it's there for the taking.

It's up to those of us that can help and can make a fuss to remove this barrier.

I have heard so many people with disabilities say they don't want to put anyone to any trouble, or question whether its ok for them to accept help when someone else might need it more, or go over the top with thanks and gratitude for someone doing a basic thing for them. And this is within organisations that exist solely for the benefit of disabled people! They shouldn't have to feel this way. It's up to the rest of society to convince people that they are worth the extra effort and that they don't have to feel guilty for needing help and accommodations.

Sorry, will get off my soap box now! blush

SirBoobAlot Mon 13-May-13 17:28:10

Dawn tell your daughter from me she's going to be a force to be reckoned with grin

I agree entirely re; buildings, buses and (bloody pre-booking) trains, Because all of that makes you feel like an problem. I have now stopped apologising to people when I have to use a disabled seat / put my wheelchair where they were sitting, but it's taken a while. However, I still feel like there was access provided here. It might not have been perfect, but it was access, he was still able to collect the award. Which is a wonderful thing smile

Dawndonna Mon 13-May-13 17:00:07

That was my 16 year old daughter replying. She did say so, at the end. It's her perspective. I can see what she's trying to say. People have been brought up not to make a fuss in public, that's what happens, and more so with people with disabilities, it comes from the time when we locked such people away, and if we were confronted with them, well, it wasn't mentioned in polite society, was it.

happyscouse Mon 13-May-13 16:56:41

Dawndonna I can assure you I did not have an upbringing that has instilled in me that my nephew is "other".
I just wanted to put another maybe positive spin on last nights events, gleaned from hearing Ade speaking himself.
I am sorry if I have offended you or any other wheelchair users that was not my intention.

Dawndonna Mon 13-May-13 16:48:39

but sorry can't agree with those who considered this to be some sort of snub.
And that is exactly the reason we need to kick up a fuss and create a stink, because people like you won't do it for us. I want to be equal, I have every right to be equal and that means being treated equally, all day, every day by every person I meet, in every situation in which I find myself. It means not having to book a train weeks in advance, not being turfed off a bus because a buggy is more important than me, not sitting outside inaccessible government buildings. You obviously will not treat me as such. You may love your nephew very much, in fact I'm 100% positive that you do, but your upbringing has somehow instilled in you that he is effectively 'other', ergo you will not make a fuss, on his behalf, or mine.
Dd's daughter.

happyscouse Mon 13-May-13 16:32:39

But he seemed to view it as a positive that there wasn't a ramp. Do we need to get so offended on his behalf when he seemed to view it as something that actually enhanced the enjoyment of the award.
As the auntie of a wheelchair using nephew for the last 16 yearsI am right behind those who say we are nowhere near the standard we should be for accesability ,but sorry can't agree with those who considered this to be some sort of snub.

MsJupiterJones Mon 13-May-13 16:15:54

I was also shocked by this. I thought it was embarrassing for the RFH/SBC. And BAFTA. Hell, I work in the theatre industry and I was embarrassed by it.

It doesn't matter what a nice guy he is and that he wouldn't have been upset by it. Fact remains, theatres should be fully accessible. Plenty of time to sort risk assessments. Plenty of carpenters handy who can build extraordinary sets. A ramp would have been a doddle.

happyscouse Mon 13-May-13 16:11:07

Just to put another slant on things, Ade was interviewed on 5 live this morning, He was obviously delighted at the award and he said it was a real surprise. He was laughing and as he said" I was saying to everyone around us its not us they would have put a ramp up by now" so when they announced them as winners it was a genuine surprise. If he was bothered about how long it took to get on stage he didn't mention it.

Booyhoo Mon 13-May-13 13:17:14

I think the fact his colleagues where asking where is ade etc shows that they hadnt considered that he would be in anyway disadvantaged by being in a wheelchair. As it should be. I dont think they were crass i think they were just expecting the same treatment for all of them and were surprised that one of them had been held up. Which really shouldnt have happened. It also looks like no-ine had informed them beforehand that ade would have to use back stage access if they won. I thinj they should have been and then at least they alm could have hone together and no-one would be wondering where he was.

CloudsAndTrees Mon 13-May-13 11:37:40

That's a fair point mrsjay, ramps in other countries can be scarily steep.

infamouspoo Mon 13-May-13 11:28:40

what Dawndonna says
It happens all the time then the ablies make excuse after excuse. As usual.
Its 2013 ffs

I forgot about the noise. How could I? It wakes me up at the crack of dawn when I visit my dad, and he is going to daycare.....

mrsjay Mon 13-May-13 11:21:04

I was in spain over easter the town we were in had stairs and ramps beside it although 1 of them was like a bloody hill felt like I needed my clampons and rope to get up it grin

CloudsAndTrees Mon 13-May-13 11:18:43

The best lifts I have had experience of have been in other countries in newer buildings, and they have been quite quiet from what I remember. They don't have to be noisy, I think it's probably just the cheaper versions that are loud.

They did provide access yes, but the point is that the provided access that was in a different place when there would have been an alternative option to provide it in the same place as everyone else.

Chipstick10 Mon 13-May-13 11:16:52

I can't believe the channel 4 coverage of the Olympics beat bbc, was speechless at that award.

mrsjay Mon 13-May-13 11:14:32

MrsJay it's the ones where you have to keep the button pushed down that are the worst. If my hand goes into spasm whilst I'm using the lift, everyone who wasn't already looking turns around to see why the noise has stopped and started!

oh bet you get quite the audience sigh

SirBoobAlot Mon 13-May-13 11:13:20

MrsJay it's the ones where you have to keep the button pushed down that are the worst. If my hand goes into spasm whilst I'm using the lift, everyone who wasn't already looking turns around to see why the noise has stopped and started!

My local TKMaxx is the worst as it is on three floors, but has two separate lifts. <sigh>

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