the woman that killed herself over the bedroom tax

(165 Posts)
marjproops Sun 12-May-13 19:58:02

terrible story.

one of the politicians saying on the news she must have had other probs to have done this?

another government excuse to fob off what theyve done?

womans son said she was fine before BT came into fruition. he said its the people in big offices and big houses that have done this, and she said in her suicide note its their fault.

Im really struggling too with this BT , Im sure lots of people are, someone on the news said its not fair especially on the disabled who've had adaptations made, (we're in that category).

so....another fob off by the government, or do you think theyll stop this anytime soon?

Darkesteyes Mon 13-May-13 00:15:59

Note the ordering me around and telling me to get to bed. And after gaslighting too. hmm

Wuldric Mon 13-May-13 00:20:24

Yup that's me. Can't stop controlling and gaslighting smile and randomly ordering people on the internet to DO MY BIDDING.

Don't be silly, and really do get to bed old thing.

Lazyjaney Mon 13-May-13 07:44:39

"If the whole story were read rather than headlines you'd see she had a debilitating illness plus the council had offered to rehouse her but she didn't like the location, and given her £2K to move properties, but she spent it"

And where were her family in this? Her death is very sad, but what is disgraceful is the attempt to make political capital out of personal tragedy.

likeitorlumpit Mon 13-May-13 08:04:43

thats my opinion, you got yours , so as my name says like it or lump it smile

RubyGates Mon 13-May-13 08:06:57

But she had family! Don't family help each other out in circumstances like this?

There are all sorts of options they could have explored. Including: some of the family that had moved out could have moved back in to help with the expenses, or some of the family could have helped her do the repairs that needed doing before she moved to the new home, or the family club together and find the twenty pounds a week between them, or if (as in some authorities is allowed, certainly in the extensive leaflet our LA has produced for people in such circumstances it is ) she found a lodger or someone in similar circumstances and they cover the otherwise impossible budget between them.

So while this is a tragic story of the "straw that broke the camel's back" it's not an inevitable outcome (especially with family support).

CarpeVinum Mon 13-May-13 08:22:55

And where were her family in this? Her death is very sad, but what is disgraceful is the attempt to make political capital out of personal tragedy.

This is a fairly typical, and understandable, responce when something like this happens. Anybody with mental health issues has a serious prolem, harms themselves or others and then the world and it's mother starts pointing the finger at the family.

The lae, the state, the agencies related to all aspects of the life of a mentally unwell person DO NOT provide the right or the tools for family members to manage the bahavoir, reactions and acceptance of treatment a mentally unwell person may require.

In many cases family members are actively thwarted in their attempts to help their loved one becuase until a threshold is crossed their family member, no matter their impaired state, is considered legally competant and attmepts to force them into a situation where they can be kept safe can result in criminal charges against the family.

Please also bear in mind that years of being a family member trying againt all the thwarting to help somebody who is having serious issues emotionally or mentally is extremely wearing. People give up. People no longer see red flags becuase they have become so numb from the constant stress and exhustion that they no longer register as high alert.

If the genub ant family members to be held responsible, legally or morally, first they must be prepared to have a long, difficult and ethically complex conversation on a national level as per the placement of the bar for competence and the degree to which they are prepared to support investment in mental health agencies, facilities and servces.

Please don't blame the family. They already tend to get the shitty end of a very big stick that they get beaten with when the person is ill, harms themselves or others or unintentionally makes their family's life a real hard endless slog.

Most likely her family has been fighting againts the odds for a very long time. You do 't need to beat them over the head with the above stick to indice more guilt. They will be doing that to themselves already, even if they have been hoop jumping for a decade and getting nowhere fast as the system undermines all their effortd.

Dawndonna Mon 13-May-13 08:31:52

people who commit suicide have only their self to blame no one held a gun to their head , they selfishly did it its their responsibilty no one elses , everyone has problems but most people sort them out instead of passing the buck hmm

People with mental health problems may perceive things differently, but the fact is that if she perceived that it was the government's fault, then it was the governments fault. Obviously not the case with all things, but in this particular case.

an interesting read on perceptions

Dawndonna Mon 13-May-13 08:34:57
RubyGates Mon 13-May-13 08:47:31

I'm not blaming anyone. This was clearly a very troubled woman. But If one is going to point the finger of blame at a single cause (the government/LA) , you're on a hiding to nothing. This is a very complex issue, and "she committed suicide because of the bedroom tax" is too simplistic an answer.

Dawndonna Mon 13-May-13 08:49:47

It's interesting that suicide has increased in the disabled population since this government took over.

CarpeVinum Mon 13-May-13 08:54:55

everyone has problems but most people sort them out instead of passing the buck

Sucidal intent or sensation is just a tad more complex than "everybody has problems" sort of problems.

It requires a level of mental health support that doesn't exist. And other than jumping up and down when a tragedy occurs, there is not much interest amoung the gen pub to invest more in MH services to avoid future occurances.

It is just much cheaper to shove the burden of responsibility on unequipped family members, and then blame them when they are unable to produce the sort of top notch round the clock professional care that aids a reduction in the number of tragic outcomes.

Lazyjaney Mon 13-May-13 09:00:32

"but the fact is that if she perceived that it was the government's fault, then it was the governments fault"

Bollocks.

FasterStronger Mon 13-May-13 09:00:56

the article in the Sun said the women had never claimed disability benefits so it sounds like she was not seeking help.

this could be a symptom of her MH problems but this does not mean anyone is to blame.

people who commit suicide have only their self to blame no one held a gun to their head , they selfishly did it its their responsibilty no one elses , everyone has problems but most people sort them out instead of passing the buck

Are you having a fucking laugh?? That has to be one of the most ignorant and ridiculous comment I have ever read on hear.

My usually level headed BIL committed suicide 3 weeks ago today because he thought he was ill and was too shy to go to the doctors......he was the most selfless person ever and in his mind he wasn't passing the buck, he took the only option he could see....at the time!!

That is a totally twattish thing to say and I hope you are never affected by suicide to realise what a dick you sound.

RooneyMara Mon 13-May-13 09:18:46

I think with this sort of thing, it's never really about the money. It's about the feeling of helplessness, of being a random statistic and of being seen to be an enemy of the state, as it were, and having no rights.

It's also about being asked to move from a place you are familiar with and where you have support.

Mainly I think it is about feeling as though other people - council officials, who have to abide by a policy - having absolute control over something as important as your home. It makes people feel very unsafe, it is dehumanising. Like no one is actually protecting you.

Of course there are issues with overcrowding and over large housing, but this isn't the answer. They need to focus on other ways of solving the problem.

People coming IN to homes should be subject to limits on the number of bedrooms, but if they have lived there for many many years then something different needs to be organised. Or yes you will end up with thise who feel utterly desperate.

Imagine being forced to move house against your will, at a couple of months' notice, to somewhere you're not familiar with and don't want to be? Imagine that scenario but with no husband to support you/make it bearable, no one in fact to rely on, no one to help.

They may as well have threatened to dump her in the middle of the atlantic ocean.

NicholasTeakozy Mon 13-May-13 09:20:28

Iain Duncan Smith is proud his 'reforms' are getting people off benefits.

gordyslovesheep Mon 13-May-13 09:34:06

What he doesn't tell you is its no more people 'coming off benefits' than you would have seen or expected to see before the sanctions reforms

melika Mon 13-May-13 09:44:50

It is very sad that this woman commited suicide. My answer is the government should not enforce this in local authorities until they can prove they can provide smaller properties.

I heard a Tory MP saying again that people could take in lodgers. I'm sorry but who wants someone strange staying in your home, what checks can be done which is fool proof anyway. I think people should be given an amnesty of say 2 years and offered similiar properties with less bedrooms in the same locality.

It's not fair for someone to be offered a high rise flat when they had a garden before etc. I know in private renting it is more expensive so that is probably not an option for many.

The only solution I can see is if they convert a load of three bedroom houses into 2 flats which will still give them a little garden.

likeitorlumpit Mon 13-May-13 10:25:35

betty calm down , everyone has an opinion , and if it doesnt match yours you call people names , very mature smile

SirBoobAlot Mon 13-May-13 10:34:31

You're a sick piece or work, likeitorlumpit. And obviously have no ounce of understanding or compassion surrounding subjects such as suicide.

People don't kill themselves just 'because'. They kill themselves because someone might as well be holding a gun to their head - there simply isn't another option.

Fucking hell. angry

HeffalumpTheFlump Mon 13-May-13 10:36:11

I really feel for this woman, but do also think that the bedroom tax is obviously the straw that broke the camels back. I live in a housing association property, and I personally find the idea of moving terrifying. You have no choice over the area or type of property, and some of the areas are really rough. The sort of places I would be frightened to walk around to be honest. I'm currently pregnant with our first child and we have decided to stay in our one bedroom property until we can afford to rent privately. The whole process of trying to move, with the uncertainties it holds is too much to take and really scares me. I just thank goodness that we are not in a position where we don't have the choice like this poor woman.

Some of the comments about suicide on this thread have really shocked me. I understand that it's a difficult subject, but do you really think if someone could see any other option that they would kill themselves?

likeitorlumpit Mon 13-May-13 10:36:54

you know nothing about me or my life , so thanks for your opinion but i dont agree , see not hard to disagree and not get nasty is it smile

FasterStronger Mon 13-May-13 10:40:35

I don't think suicide is inherently selfish but I think how she went was.

she did not consider the safety of the lorry driver, other road users or long term effects on those involved.

it might have been her illness that made her selfish or just that she was selfish. but we don't know one way or another.

it is also odd as her son was an HGV driver according to the Sun.

Saski Mon 13-May-13 10:46:08

I'm wondering where her family was in this as well - not for support of her mental illness (that's complex) but why couldn't they help her carry out her house repairs?

The fact that she couldn't actually use the 2K that the council gave her to move (which seems a pretty generous moving allowance to me, by the way) is the fault of her son. I have absolutely no DIY training and I could strip wallpaper, pull up carpet, and repair a fence.

Agreed this is sensationalist. This story doesn't make the bedroom tax any more or less right/wrong. It's just a red herring.

everlong Mon 13-May-13 10:48:47

Likeitorlumpit.

Such a lovely attitude. So knowledgeable on such a complex issue.

hmm

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