To think 'Prince of Egypt' is just a bit sickening and not something I'd want my children to watch?

(89 Posts)
DribbleWiper Mon 06-May-13 14:45:58

Sorry, but even (and especially) if you believe it really happened, the slaughter of Egypt's first-born is just horrible and not a fit subject for a children's cartoon.

The only lesson I can see being taught here is that it's okay for your enemy's innocent children to be killed so long as it benefits you and your own nation/people.

AIBU to think that there is no way this would have been deemed acceptable to be included in a children's cartoon if it weren't a biblical story?

HollyBerryBush Mon 06-May-13 14:58:47

Or giving a pretty child a poisoned apple?

Or a huntsman killing the mother dear?

Or falling asleep for 100 years?

Or being locked in a tower by a person of short stature?

Most Disney films seem to have orphans in them, bit of salacious murdering and questionable moral judgement

uncongenial Mon 06-May-13 15:01:13

I don't think that's the lesson being taught.

Plenty of similar stories not from the bible also deemed acceptable.

gordyslovesheep Mon 06-May-13 15:01:49

YABU if you don't want your kids to see it don't show it to them.

DribbleWiper Mon 06-May-13 15:08:46

Or giving a pretty child a poisoned apple?

The villain does it - in PoE, it's the supposedly all-powerful source of goodness that kills the children.

Or a huntsman killing the mother dear?

Deer, presumably? Not anywhere near on the same level as killing thousands of innocent children.

Or falling asleep for 100 years?

Again, how comparable? Do you mean it's unrealistic? If so, that's not the point.

Or being locked in a tower by a person of short stature?

Again, are you comparing this to mass murder?

Uncongenial, what is the lesson, then? That Moses' god is the best one? Well, obviously. Great. Really character-building.

CajaDeLaMemoria Mon 06-May-13 15:14:07

We studied the Prince of Egypt at school, and watched the Disney film as well as some documentaries, so they'll most likely see it anyway.

It's an interesting debate. There's plenty of things that are horrid to learn about - the holocaust springs to mind - but there is value in knowing about them, and in this case, in evaluating them. It's an excellent basis for highlighting that religion causes some horrific acts, etc.

Whether you follow religion or not, that's an important lesson, I think. Just look at Syria. Talking about it and instilling morals in your children may prevent this continuing long into the future.

caroldecker Mon 06-May-13 15:16:25

It teaches God is vengeful - approved by all monotheistic religions, so well over 50% of the world. Children need to learn of the dangers very early.

HollyBerryBush Mon 06-May-13 15:19:10

It's all about moral fortitude.

Startail Mon 06-May-13 15:22:44

I've watched the clip of that bit on Utube it's horrible

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Mon 06-May-13 15:25:14

The dangers of what? Mass infanticide?

phantomnamechanger Mon 06-May-13 15:25:45

no one HAS to watch any film, we all know that, we all pick and choose what we watch and what we allow our DC to watch, based on all sorts of personal preferences - so I don't really get the point of your OP, unless it's to stir up a religion based hornets nest?

DribbleWiper Mon 06-May-13 15:31:59

caroldecker Wow. hmm

No, indeed, phantom, but the question is, should anyone's children watch a film where mass infanticide (thanks, puds) is uncritically presented as completely okay? The point isn't specifically religious, as most Disney films are based on myths/legends/stories from a variety of cultures.

Bogeyface Mon 06-May-13 15:37:12

The story of the Exodus is very important to many religions, not just Christianity. What would you rather they did? Knock and run on Pharaohs front door until he got fed up?

Whether you believe the story or not, it is one of the most famous parts of the most famous book in the world (not counting Harry Potter obv), and any portrayal of it must naturally include the nasty bits.

I would also draw your attention to the fact that the Pharaoh committed mass infanticide on the hebrew children and the depiction of that is far more gruesome.....men with machetes throwing dead babies into the river. Yet you dont mention that, why? Because its ok if the perceived "bad guy" is doing it?

Sparhawk Mon 06-May-13 15:37:55

Depends on how old the children are and whether you're using it as a teaching aid, or plonking them in front of it and leaving them to it. But yeah, the subject matter is pretty gruesome, same as Noah's Ark and many other Bible stories.

Well, we're Jewish so that story is an integral part of our Passover celebrations and I'm pleased we have the Disney movie (for all its inaccuracies) for the DDs to watch to help them learn and remember the story. We tend not to gloss over any of the more horrible bits of our ancient traditions/history during our holidays, whether it was us being slaughtered or others/god doing the slaughtering.

AFAIR my DD's CofE school taught the children about Herod killing all the newborn baby Jewish boys when Jesus was born as part of the Christmas story. Similar levels of infanticide.

IMO they're just stories and children aren't too bothered by them. The success of Horrible Histories is a great testament to that!

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm Mon 06-May-13 15:43:11

YABU. And,quite frankly, you sound unhinged.

DribbleWiper Mon 06-May-13 15:46:19

BUT the point is that Pharaoh and Herod committing mass infanticide is implicitly criticised because they're the "bad guys" in the story. Children are thus taught that it is a bad thing.

Are you really all saying that it's okay for cartoons to show the killing of children as a positive thing? Because that's what PoE does. It's the positive portrayal that's at issue here, not the portrayal of "bad" things in films.

DribbleWiper Mon 06-May-13 15:46:47

Why's that, Things?

What? So infanticide is only an issue if a supposedly "good" god carries it out, but okay if some bad guy does it? Is that's what's bothering you? God getting a bad rap?

Disney didn't write the story, you do realise that, right?

I found the portrayal in Prince of Egypt to be tragic, same as in the bible story. Nothing positive about it. Why do you think it's portrayed as positive?

DribbleWiper Mon 06-May-13 15:55:59

Annie, I thought I was quite clear. If a "good" god (or character in general) does something, children are presumably being told that it is an okay thing to do, right? If a "bad" character does it, then it's a bad thing to do. Is this clear enough?

Let's imagine we were re-writing the Lion King and Scar (the BAD guy) had a few really cute cubs. Simba (the GOOD guy) calls upon his father Mufasa to slaughter all of Scar's cubs to make his life easier. That takes religion out of the equation. Now, if this were the plot, would the murder of the innocent lion cubs being committed by the good guys be appropriate in a child's film?

McBalls Mon 06-May-13 16:01:26

I haven't seen this, haven't considered it before but your reasoning for feeling uneasy seem pretty sound to me (if the film presents the story in the way you've explained).

Fluffypinkcoat Mon 06-May-13 16:03:06

Its not a Disney film.

DribbleWiper Mon 06-May-13 16:04:02

McBalls, this is the relevant part of the film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2R07EbLjSU

I don't agree that children will get the message that it's okay to commit infanticide because they saw the good guy doing it. I would assume they would get the intended message that repeated disobedience will result in increasingly horrible punishment. I give my children enough credit that they will understand that.

The killing of the firstborn wasn't to "make life easier" for the Israelites, it was to punish Pharoah for his disobedience. Mufasa, off his own bat, deciding to kill Mufasa's cubs because he is consistently hurting the other animals of the plains and has repeatedly refused to listen when he has been told not to and punished in other, apparently ineffective, ways. It's about how Mufasa was so fucking stubborn and power-hungry that he didn't care about the consequences to his own people, not even his own son, to do the right thing and stop hurting the other other animals.

The idea is that god isn't necessarily the good guy. He's god. He makes the rules and you listen or horrible things happen. That's the message.

Sorry:

Mufasa, off his own bat (without any request from Simba, who is finding this whole argument incredibly difficult), deciding to kill Scar's cubs because he is consistently hurting the other animals of the plains.

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