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To Think This is a Step Too Far - School Related...(61 Posts)
DD was chattering earlier - tells me her friend was in trouble in school last week for fighting - twice losing it & hitting & hurting other boys in class - he's usually a good kid & not often in trouble, but as a result lost a bit of "Golden Time" - which is standard punishment at DDs school.
She then goes onto to tell me that he was grounded by his Mum for getting into trouble at school - I would have done exactly the same thing - at some point the teacher had asked what he was going to be doing that evening & he'd told her he was grounded -
The teacher, whom I usually have a lot of respect for, apparently replied - "oh no, that's not on, I need to write a letter to your Mum, you have lost Golden Time, we deal with punishment in School, your mum shouldn't be punishing you at home too" -
I have seen similar - "reminders to parents, that we deal with misbehaviour in school, further punishments at home are not required & are to be discouraged" in school news letters.
TBH it didn't really register properly with me at that point, but hearing about DDs friend today brought it home - to my mind, the school are completely over stepping the mark, especially directly undermining DDs friends DM directly to him - if it were me I would be fuming.
I think schools and parents need to have a deal. Parents don't get to interfer in how school chooses to deal with trangressions, within reason, and vice versa.
Frankly this intruiging sounding Golden Time would be the least of my child's worries if it came to my attention he had been misbehaving at school.
Teacher and parent are as bad as one another in this case: seems neither trusts the other to deal with discipline without interference.
I agree with the school but would be fuming id they had said this t my son.
You're right, it directly undermines the mother. To write/speak to her about it wouldn't have BU but to mention doing so in front of her son was!
i do not undermine teachers authority and i do not expect her to undermine mine
it may in some cases be wrong to punish again in other cases it may well be right
the teacher was completely out of order to say to a child your mum is being unfair i'll have a word with her
I agree that most teachers do a fine job in difficult circumstances but you can't have your cake and eat it, complain about lack of parental support for discipline and then undermine that very support
i might consider some offence more serious or indeed less so than a teacher does and therefore you reserve right to either go along with punishment as appropriate and nothing more needs to be done to think she was perhaps unfairly or harshly treated as teacher did not know background or perhaps for same reason treated it more lightly than I would have done
Thanks for all the replies - excuse me not replying to individual questions, but its been a long day & I'm now just knackered, so hope I make sense & please excuse typos etc
Turns out I did misunderstand DD a bit - though the real version - which is 2nd hand - not 4th hand is probably worse as the teacher in question was addressing the whole class when she did this - I thought she was just asking the small group of DD & her friends - DD is also very mature for her age & not prone to gossip or lying, she actually thought the teacher was in the wrong & it upset her as she usually has a lot of respect for this teacher
Golden time is sort of school activity clubs, various teachers & parent volunteers run them & its half hour of everything from arts, to cookery, to sport & more, the kids get to choose an activity they want to do & go to that club - any that get caught misbehaving then get docked 5 minutes Golden time - DD tells me if the incidents are linked - ie a DC attacks the same DC twice, even on separate days, then that's seen as one incident, so they still only lose 5 minutes - attack 2 different DCs they lose 10minutes - I only learnt this bit today & I've got to be honest with goid reason I'm more than a bit over it.
I think this system probably works okay with the younger years, but according to DD who is older, seems with some if the older DCs its become a bit of a badge of honour to lose it, she says some even compete at times as to who can lose the most, thinking it makes them look "cool".
I totally agree with those of you who wouldn't punish at home for things at school in the younger years as it just wont make sense to a lot of younger DCs, unless of course ongoing & really bad, with no hint of SN
I also agree for one off, or infrequent minor incidents such as chatting when they should be paying attention etc, but I think for things like stealing, bullying & attacking & hurting other DCs then its up to us & I personally, just like DDs friends mum would come down hard on her & had thought as some of you say, that I would backing the school in doing so, as it was reinforcing their message that such behaviour is unacceptable & will be punished - I firmly believe that the reason DD doesn't get into trouble at school & prides herself on not breaking school rules is because she knows she would never get away with it at home either -
the boy who was in trouble this week, hasn't been in any real trouble before, I suspect for the same reasons that my DD doesn't get into trouble - his DM supports the school & came down hard on him with sanctions
Hope I've covered everything & made sense
Oh I should have added, AFAIK we only get told of the more major incidents & prior to this, with older DCs especially, I would have taken having been told, as they would welcome back up from us parents
Whether her school would think I'm undermining their authority doesn't come very high up in the check list I've got of how to encourage good behaviour in my DD
Agentzigzag THAT pretty much sums up my take on it too - I think we know our DCs better than anyone else, therefore we know what works to instil that good behaviour in them - mine is a good kid, but is strong willed & feisty as hell & she would laugh at losing only 5 minutes Golden Time as a punishment for anything big - she knows I would always back the school though & she knows better than to mess with me
DD tells me if the incidents are linked - ie a DC attacks the same DC twice, even on separate days, then that's seen as one incident, so they still only lose 5 minutes
Concurrent sentences. Interesting approach
Does that not invite a bit of a "might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb" sort of thing ?
I doubt my son would liked to have lost five whole minutes of something so fun, expecially since in our schools fun is a bit of a dirty word. But it's still knowing he would have me to face that has long been be the overriding movtivation not to incur teacher wrath.
Here it's kind of different. The kids get punished with a "note" in their diary. Where the teacher details their wrong doings for parents to read.
That is a great motivator for the kids who know they'll be in for the high jump when a parent opens their diary that evening. Doesn't work so well when the parents reaction is typically a shrug or a "boys will be boys".
It's up to schools to have a system that incorporates each unique system/techniques the different families use, that's part of what school is for, to bring some uniformity to childrens behaviour so they can teach lots at once and roughly fit in to a work environment.
They can give advice to parents if it's asked for, but trying to micro-manage them is overstepping their role.
Does that not invite a bit of a "might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb" sort of thing
Good point CarpeVinium (loving that username BTW) I'm actually quite shocked to find out they do it that way, but it does answer a lot of puzzles - DDs friend thumped the same much smaller boy twice, on 2 separate days in one week & loses 5 minutes - if I were the DM of the boy he hit I would be mightily peed off & very grateful to his mum for dealing with it more effectively - especially as it seems they are getting to that age where they are literally fighting for the girls attentions, which seems to be what's sparked this attack between 2 boys who usually get on well
Also though I would never usually voice it to DD, if I'm honest, in a school where they make sure learning is fun for the DCs, which really is great & sees them mostly very enthusiastic & loving school, losing a little bit of another fun activity isn't really such a big deal, especially with the orders DCs who have a better concept of time & realise 5 minutes is no big deal
I'm all for backing the teachers, but feel I've been put in a situation where I've had to undermine her & remind DD that the teacher is not in charge at home - I am & surely that's not good.
Spot on Agent
I've been thinking about this & I realise why its peed me off so much, apart from the fact I think is overstepping the mark & telling us parent how to do our job, when I don't doubt they would be pretty peed off if it were the other way around - & rightly so. My DD was the victim of a long term on going bullying campaign - subtle girly ganging up under queen bees lead & exclusion & bitchy stuff at the hands of what had one of her one time good friends, for all the schools actively trying to put a stop to it & supporting my DD & they were trying & were good - the DC concerned just sneered & carried on -
until I spoke to her DM, who initially just chatted to her, which TBH did little good, but after my DH talking to the Dad (they are old friends) & the DM getting called to the school a few times & then the pair of them upping the anti with punishment for her DD at home too, its now stopped - missing golden time didn't do that - her parents getting involved & doing as we would do & bing her into line at home too, did
It would depend on what the child did wrong. But as a parent, I will discipline my child, how I see fit. If I don't think a loss of play time is enough, I will ground, take away toys.
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