ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
To think middle-class Guardian reading lefties, really are morally superior to their rabid Daily Mail/Telegraph reading counterparts?(207 Posts)
Posh lefty handwringers/Champagne Socialists/The Islington mafia call them what you like, but I think they are unfairly maligned.
Because in purely self economic terms it would be more beneficial to adopt a right wing stance and advocate less taxation, cuts in stamp duty and inheritance tax, yet they take an opposing view in the interests of fairness and justice.
By contrast, Middle/upper class Tories act largely in their own interest.
dolcelatte's point manages to be insulting to working class people and benefit claimants in one fell swoop IMO.
Some humdingers of cliches about the middle class on here too.
Plus, there's more than one way to define 'morally superior'.
The Mail's always banging on about decline of morals and trendy lefties, although they are talking about sex things (single mums/gay marriage/abortion). The whole 'be excellent to one another' thing that some trendy liberal types think Jesus was actually trying to get across; gets pushed down the agenda somewhat.
I should like to point out that many of our friends fall into the category I'm talking about. They're either in well paid local council/ education jobs or in the meeja.
They have absolutely no idea what it's like to be living the life they think they 'know best" about.
They are universally well-meaning but unbelievably condescending, never having once considered asking whether the policies they admire so much are actually what the people they are supposed to help want. (Probably because they don't know any, you know, socially).
(It's a particular bug-bear of mine I'm afraid)
So what do you think ought to happen, rubygates?
Can't agree with this, and I'd say I'm centre left. It's a very insular view.
The first Guardian reading 'leftie' I can think of bases his very simplistic views exclusively from reading that paper, thinks people are very stupid if they ever disagree with him, even if they have better evidence. AND goes to quite elaborate lengths to avoid his taxes when he earns 6 figures, whilst pontificating to all and sundry about everything under the sun. Fucking idiot.
Interesting. I find my left wing friends on facebook 'rabid' my newsfeed is full Tory bashing constantly and yes they act morally superior imo. My Tory friends seem far more balanced on facebook. It gets to the point I have to hide some of my left wing friends at election times.
I really don't think the Daily Fail is on a par with the Torygraph really.
Anyway now I've added more generalisations to this thread, I'll leave
To be fair, if the group you describe actually lived the values that they talk about, I'd think you had more of a point. In my personal experience (I know quite a lot of born and bred property/wealth inheritors etc) from Islington and surrounding areas, this is not the case.
Smirks smugly and polishes halo on red flag ...
I am a leftie and live in a leafy m/c suburb of North London. I am an ex-Islingtonian and I read the Guardian....and ...I'm a teacher!
So no, OP, you aren't being unreasonable because you have captured the essence of me and others like me perfectly! I don't think I am morally superior - I KNOW I am. I do sometimes read the DM online but only to scorn it and propel my own sense of innate superiority.
It's the whole "we must be very clever indeed to read and agree with the Guardian" while simultaneously believing that the
"poor people who need the state's help must be very stupid/ poorly educated/ just haven't understood because they dare to hold different views"
To paraphrase" You don't agree with us, you must be stupid. We won't engage with you in discourse, we will pat you on the head, continue to believe what we do without listening to your views (even though you are the very people the Guardian is talking about) and try to guide you in your error.
It's just so incredibly patronising.
Oh and in the spirit of this thread, on the rare occasions I see people 'round here reading the Sun or other red-tops, I do of course assume that they are white bread eating-Jezza Kyle watching -benefit scrounging - UKIP voting -white w/c uneducated scum. As you do.
Left, Right ... Pffft. It's more about people's basic humanity and empathy. I'm pretty left-leaning but I've met Comrades I wouldn't trust an inch and Tories I'd trust with my life, and vice-versa!
Bloody hell, so many assumptions about middle class liberals here.
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that in my little world (which is not as described on this thread) the people I know who read the Mail are thick and bigoted, the ones who read the Telegraph do it occasionally for a laugh or like the cricket, and the Guardian readers are pretty good eggs. Who possibly do not create a shitload of wealth for the financial sector but they happily pay taxes, would happily pay more, and are pretty much doing good for various sectors who need a bit of that.
But that's a straw poll of about fifty people and not really that representative.
PS I don't really know people who read the Independent. I also only know one person who reads the Times and she's nice but doesn't like me much so it's hard to judge
I don't feel like I understand the class system or the newspapers that supposedly represent the classes/political party views/etc at all.
One set of grandparents were working class, left school at 12 etc. Then put selves through top universities, became clergy, never earned any money. Their son (my dad) went to a top private school entirely on scholarships, bursaries etc. Votes labour. Now makes a fortune in the city.
Other set were children of doctors etc, pretty middle class. Their daughter (my mum) didn't go to uni. She's a secretary, low earner. Votes Tory, sounds posh! Divorced, small house, not much maintenance from dad, no pension.
I went to private schools, again on scholarships and bursaries. Went to a good uni. Am a teacher in a private school. DH is from a working class family. He was the first to go to uni, first to leave their town. Most of his school friends haven't left and don't have jobs. He works and always has-earns a low but liveable wage as long as we are careful. We live in the cheapest street in our city, in a tiny, tiny house that's all we can afford. Our joint salary is low-I work PT and almost all my wages pay for childcare. Working FT would have the same result so I'd rather spend the time with DD. Our house is ex-council. We could only afford to buy when we inherited DMIL's pension when she died. Most people on our street don't work, are often out in their pyjamas during the day when I'm at home with DD, lots of Union Jack flags flying. We've not lived here that long but everyone's been v friendly to us. We don't receive any tax credits etc-we do get child benefit. We shop in Aldi and have got our groceries bill down to £35 a week. We don't have a TV. Our car is 8 years old and we have no intention/ability to buy a new one probably in the next 10 years. We don't go on holiday.
How 'should' we vote? What paper 'should' we read?! DH has a broad northern accent and I'm a posh southerner. People always assume I'm rich and privileged and in some ways I am. In some I'm definitely not. I would bet people think we vote Tory when they look at us/hear me speak/see our jobs, and Labour when they see where we live/how poor we are. My father is a millionnaire. DH's father lives in one of the poorest parts of the county and is frequently out of work. Sometimes I think we (DH and I) are 'middle-class without any money'.
For what it's worth, we both read The Guardian.
I lack any kind of class and read them all, must be a confused twat.
I agree with feckless dizzy. It's what you actually do/how you behave that counts, not what you talk about in theory.
As a general point, it seems odd to me to just read one paper. Wouldn't anyone interested in this sort of thing want a number of different takes and views on things?
Exactly Binky. If a story interest me I will read about if from a number of sources. I suspect many people do the same when you can read papers online.
"the people I know who read the Mail are thick and bigoted, "
"and the Guardian readers are pretty good eggs. Who possibly do not create a shitload of wealth for the financial sector but they happily pay taxes, would happily pay more"
(And you don't even understand do you, why other decent citizens who are taxed until they squeak might not be able to pay more?
"just so unreasonable of them, not like us clever Guardian readers"
Cross post! I don't read the papers as much as I'd like, probably because I walk to work now instead of commuting, but if I read about something online about a particular story I'd prob read Guardian and Telegraph etc. Online makes it a lot cheaper to do this!
""poor people who need the state's help must be very stupid/ poorly educated..."
Add "and be lazy and feckless" and you have summed up the Daily Mail's view, surely, rather than the Guardian's?
'and the Guardian readers are pretty good eggs. Who possibly do not create a shitload of wealth for the financial sector but they happily pay taxes, would happily pay more"
That's where our personal experiences differ - some very wealthy guardian readers I know avoid their income tax and plan to avoid inheritance tax, whilst saying in theory the rich should be taxed more, and thinking that view makes them morally superior. Just personal experience I know, but think it shows that you really can't generalise and should be suspicious of people who automatically claim the moral high ground!
I cannot stand The Guardian, to me it's so bias and anti Tory you cannot see the news in a balanced way at all. But all my lefty friends love it.
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