Should I give any more thought to DD's friend's mum?

(115 Posts)
AgentZigzag Sat 04-May-13 22:30:05

We've known the mum and her DD for about 10 years and I was friends with the mum for about 4/5 years (I think) before I made a deliberate decision to back the fuck off at speed distance myself from her. But now DD is 12 YO and they don't live that far away (and lives near to someone else DD sees often) she been going round on her own for a few months.

The reason I'm posting is that DD stopped over there a couple of weeks ago and said the mum had walked around in just her bra/pants for about half hour before getting dressed (not related to the bra/pants/hanging washing out thread grin). DD stopped again last night along with another couple of lasses and she thought the other girls being there would mean the mum wouldn't walk about like that in front of them, but she did.

That's the bare bones, and I'm totally open to the fact there's absolutely nothing wrong with the scenario because -
-it's completely her right to dress/not dress how she pleases in her own home
-DD feeling uncomfortable could be down to her being 12, we've got no hang ups with our bodies and have been relaxed but respectful of privacy etc and have encouraged the same with DD

However, saying that, there are things, some to do with why I backed off from the mum, which I'm trying to decide whether they're significant to this or not -
-A minor thing, but basic politeness and making guests feel comfortable may sometimes involve getting dressed in a conventional sense, and in front of your 12 YO DDs friend might be one of those times, the mum does seem to have had a blurred boundaries issue with other things
-She did some things that made me hmm in the past, like when DD stopped over at 7 YO (her friend 6 YO) the mum left them on their own in the house (which I was furious about tbh), and another incident at about the same time when all three of them ended up with no clothes on, she asked me to babysit the first time I met her and her DD 2/3 YO, talks inappropriately about her DDs dad in front of her DD/my DD, amongst other things
-If this was DDs friends dad walking about in just his shreddies I would be wondering about him possibly getting a kick from it (although I'm not suggesting this of the mum)

Knowing what I do of her, the most rational answer I can think of is that she's trying to prove a point that there's nothing wrong with peoples bodies. It's something she keeps saying to DD and trying to make DD do things she's not comfortable with, thankfully DD is able to speak up and say no.

Today DD went to get something from a cupboard when the mum was only in bra/pants, and even though there was a lot of room for her to move back, she only gave DD a tiny bit of space to squeeze past, and this does make me feel a bit uneasy, as it did DD (although a horrified cringe would be a more accurate word for DD grin).

Someone else I know gets something from knowing what makes other people squirm and then doing it repeatedly 'because they can'. A bit of a power thing? Point scoring? Game Playing? I'm not sure, but it's fucking horrible and I don't like people who enjoy doing it.

Does that sound plausible?

Sorry I've gone on, but it's been bouncing around in my head for a couple of weeks and I'm not sure whether I should encourage DD to stay away or just leave them be. I like her friend and she knows us well so I'm loathe to get involved, but I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if I read it wrong and missed warning signs which might be obvious afterwards if anything more creepy were to happen.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Sat 04-May-13 22:34:40

It's something she keeps saying to DD and trying to make DD do things she's not comfortable with, thankfully DD is able to speak up and say no.

What things is she trying to make her do hmm

RiotsNotDiets Sat 04-May-13 22:36:05

Encourage your DD to speak up? "excuse me, I can't get past without your tits flapping in my face you weirdo "

SpanishFly Sat 04-May-13 22:36:14

I wear underwear when I'm drying my hair etc after a shower. I don't mind my ds seeing me. But jeeeeeez I'd never ever allow one of his friends to see it. There are lines and boundaries.
I'm not sure what her motives are but if you and your dd aren't comfortable then she doesn't stay over again, or you speak to the mum to express your concerns

SpanishFly Sat 04-May-13 22:37:25

PS if it was the dad doing this we'd all be going nuts, so I'm not sure why this is different, really

LastMangoInParis Sat 04-May-13 22:39:15

So whichever way you look at it, this couple are completely insensitive to the fact that they make other people feel very ill at ease.
Obviously, the motivation behind their behaviour might be more or less 'sinister'. But even if it's an 'innocent' way of trying to 'make a point', it's still amazingly fuckwitted and boorish clumsy and insensitive, and ridiculously naïve. (as is leaving 7y.os. on own, not caring about feelings of guest, whether they're 12, 20, 120...)

Go with your gut

LemonPeculiarJones Sat 04-May-13 22:47:24

This is inappropriate behaviour.

The exhibitionism has already gone from display to touching (forcing your DD to squeeze past her).

It's not ok. There's something wrong with the woman.

AgentZigzag Sat 04-May-13 22:51:39

The dad doesn't live with the mum/DD LastMango, it's just them.

Hohoho - a couple of things which come to mind when DDs recently been round (i.e. at 12 YO) is (and I've weighed up this outing me if the OP didn't, and am not that fussed whether she recognised it were she a MNer) the mum provided a bucked to piss in upstairs/overnight and DD went downstairs when the mum was still up, the mum said just use the bucket and DD felt able to say 'I'd rather use the (downstairs) bathroom if that's OK'. Also the friend asked DD to ask her mum to pass her some loo roll while she was on the loo, the mum said 'we've all seen bums! you pass it to her', I actually think DD did, but she really didn't want to.

I feel sorry for the DD, although I know she shouldn't feel ashamed of her mum or embarrassed about her body etc, but if she is bothered, I know from experience that instead of making you less inhibited it can make you more insecure about yourself.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Sat 04-May-13 22:56:00

The bucket thing is gross, I can't believe she would expect your DD to use it. I could see how her own DD would be embarrassed by her mum. blush

AgentZigzag Sat 04-May-13 22:58:04

Thing is, thinking about this woman from the angle I've written the OP from makes her seem a really sleazy/creepy person who you'd automatically see as such, but she's relatively conventional in things like her house (which is clean/well maintained) she's very friendly, outgoing, doesn't seem deceptive in other things, very straight talking (but doesn't like it back - classic) etc.

I know those things don't add up to anything in particular, but it's difficult to square the odd behaviour with the 'normal' bits of her I've sussed out for myself as genuine IYSWIM?

KristinaM Sat 04-May-13 23:02:21

I wouldn't be happy with my DD , who is 13, going there.

AgentZigzag Sat 04-May-13 23:03:34

The bucket thing made me think she was maybe trying to cut down the times she was disturbed by the girls in the evening and what she was doing down there but didn't want them to see

It's not the bucket as such, that's only a bit old fashioned when loos were down the garden and what's the difference between that and a potty?

But it's how she didn't know that might mortify her DD? And if she doesn't have an inkling about that possibly being inappropriate with a guest, what else does she think is OK? (answer is lots, obviously?)

Misknit Sat 04-May-13 23:05:16

Following on from what Spanishfly has said, if it had been a father behaving in this way what course of action would you take? Just because she's a woman shouldn't make it any less sinister.

I wouldn't be letting my child go over there again. She scared you off with past behaviour - trust your instincts.

cocolepew Sat 04-May-13 23:09:50

I wouldn't be comfortable with my DD going around there. It's just not appropriate behaviour.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Sat 04-May-13 23:10:13

i wouldn't let my child go round there again.

adult in their underwear parading around in front of someone else's child? Creating small spaces that the child has to squeeze through, brushing against them in their underwear?

totally inappropriate and if she can't see that, there's something wrong with her, frankly.

you say that if this was a man, you'd be thinking he's getting a kick out of it, but because this is a woman, you're not saying that. Why? It's possible that's exactly what it is.

You don't behave like that in front of someone else's child. You just don't. She may be going for ooh, I'm so cool and laid back and relaxed about everything - but she's screwing up here and she needs telling.

AgentZigzag Sat 04-May-13 23:14:31

Misknit - it's possibly because I can imagine her motivations to be to prove the point that DD shouldn't be embarrassed and maybe she's the one to cure her of it that I'm not reading anything more sinister into it. It would totally fit with the kind of person she is.

That doesn't mean I don't think there could be anything else to it, but being a paranoid paedo hunter of a suspicious/overthinking nature already, I think (hope) I would have picked up something else in that vein, and I haven't.

Flojobunny Sat 04-May-13 23:20:11

The comments about if it was a dad I'd react differently, is just wrong and totally sexist. Either its creepy behaviour or its not. What gender the person is should be irrelevant. Though I do wonder if she's doing the whole 'all girls together' thing and trying to be some sort of mate and getting it totally wrong, not realising its every 12 year olds worse nightmare.
With all the bits of things you have said, I am surprised you let her sleep over.

why do you still let your dd visit?

AgentZigzag Sat 04-May-13 23:29:38

She's quite a serious, humourless (?), easily shocked person flojo, not the type to try to be 'daan wi' da kidz' or be a mate to her DD.

ProphetOfDoom Sat 04-May-13 23:30:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ImperialBlether Sat 04-May-13 23:30:44

I wouldn't let my daughter sleep over there, but I would let her have the child come to stay whenever she wanted, as long as both were happy with that.

What were the problems you had with her before that? She sounds really, really weird, tbh. And for the person who said the bucket is like a potty, the girls are twelve years old! Your daughter might have her period when she's there - who would want to use a bucket under those circumstances?

LastMangoInParis Sat 04-May-13 23:33:53

Well said, Schmaltz! grin wine

Misknit Sat 04-May-13 23:33:59

Whatever her intentions may be, her behaviour is totally inappropriate. I probably am paranoid due to a family member being abused by a woman - who also openly had this 'let's not be ashamed of our bodies' stance.

If your daughter has been made to feel uncomfortable (and to be honest, being asked to piss in a bucket in a house with a working toilet would be enough for me), perhaps it's just best you encourage her DD to come to you.

ZZZenagain Sat 04-May-13 23:36:32

she is definitely unusual. I would tell dd that the other girl can come round to your house but that you'd prefer it if dd stopped going round there

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