to wonder why everyone is a sex offender....

(124 Posts)
gabbymum Sat 04-May-13 19:24:56

Every day in the papers there seems to be a new one. Most of them seem to relate to events that happened years ago. What is going on?

LastMangoInParis Sat 04-May-13 23:06:51

it was about attitude to women. men's attitudes, and women's attitudes. women planning to 'catch' men by using sex. men thinking that if it was offered they could take it.

Right, b4bunnies.
None of that need involve sexually assaulting children, though, you see.
And if it was offered is kind of operative, isn't it?
The thing is, you see, b4bunnies, children cannot 'offer' sexual activity to an adult.
Can you understand that? You seem rather confused.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

b4bunnies Sat 04-May-13 23:24:41

get a grip? am i the one who is over-excited by this? i don't think so.

people had different expectations.

yes, lunatic, you are probably right - although it didn't seem like it at the time, the girl probably was being abused, certainly exploited, by her mother. that's a shocking thought and why it has been on my mind with the recent publicity.

what it seemed like at the time was the girl having fun, getting involved with people from the television etc. but the overall aim was to get a husband out of it, which did involve an expectation of a 'relationship'.

LastMangoInParis Sat 04-May-13 23:29:32

b4bunnies: You seem to be talking about a girl who was at primary school at the same time that you were, right? And you say you lost contact with this girl? And yet you also speak as if you think you knew what went on when she and her mother went to these events (or whatever they were), and you try to say that you know what the score was at that time regarding manipulative women, etc. (so presumably were an adult male at that time).
How did you manage to be a primary school child and have such 'insight' into adult mores, all at the same time? hmm

FreyaSnow Sat 04-May-13 23:33:21

I have books from the 80s on child psychology and know people who worked with vulnerable young people in the seventies and eighties. It was the case then as it is now that children who have been victims of sexual abuse often have problems with boundaries and knowing how to relate to adults, which puts them at risk of further abuse from predatory and criminally minded adults. The child b4b mentions may well have had issues with boundaries around adults, but any decent person would see that child as very vulnerable, not as somebody to exploit by starting a 'relationship' with them.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BollyGood Sat 04-May-13 23:41:13

b4bunnies I have just read this thread and am completely shocked at your comments regarding your friend. Children do not ask to be abused. Neither do women.End of.

everlong Sat 04-May-13 23:44:30

Women are now thinking that they might be listened to and believed.

That's what's going on.

Imagine living with something like that???

OP, you're confusing 'everyone' with what the media decides is worth reporting.

I'm glad they are, but it's not indicative of any increase in offences of this kind.
It's always happened, but now it's being publicised more.

Kleptronic Sat 04-May-13 23:46:22

b4bunnies I wouldn't call challenging what seemed to be victim blaming 'over-excited'. In your post you said the woman and the child were 'asking for it'. This language is inflammatory. This phrase has been used time out of mind by abusers as a justification for abuse.

No child is ever 'asking for it' and if her mother was presenting her for sex to anyone then she was groomed by her mother for abuse. Did you mean your words to come across as a defence of paedophilia?

I think b4bunnies may be trying to express the effect of 'celebrity' on the girl's mother. In a very clumsy way, that's open to misinterpretation.

BasilBabyEater Sat 04-May-13 23:54:42

Do you mean the girl's mother knew that the celebrity concerned would sexually assault her child b4bunnies, and that she was OK with that?

Really?

How do you know that?

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 04-May-13 23:54:59

But you actually said they asked for it, a child asked for abusive sexual contact and you confirmed that was the case.

Bugger all to do with anyone's attitude apart from yours

LastMangoInParis Sun 05-May-13 00:01:24

b4bunnies you still haven't told us how it is that you think you understand this bygone era from both a child's and an adult's point of view.

KoreRenati Sun 05-May-13 00:10:12

b4bunnies If something is wrong then it is wrong no matter when it happened, even if people didn't think it was wrong at the time. Attitudes changing is a bullshit excuse.

BollyGood Sun 05-May-13 00:13:29

in case of 'real' abusers, those who went out of their way to find children and vulnerable people - by all means prosecute, no longer how long ago the offence.

You also wrote this b4bunnies what exactly do you mean by 'real' abusers? Are you saying other types of abuse is ok if the abuser didn't actively go out looking for children, but if they happened upon them then it's ok? Seriously think about what you are writing. Or log out and don't bother coming back on here.

BollyGood Sun 05-May-13 00:14:13

I am actually disgusted by your attitude

Dawndonna Sun 05-May-13 00:57:14

Fuck me, I've just cleared my faceache page of rape apologists. Shame I can't do it here.
angry

DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper Sun 05-May-13 02:18:41

Utterly unbelievable the sheer number of people who still, in this day and age, assume women and children are asking for it, are automatically not to be believed, and are somehow at fault for their own abuse and rape. That it's automatically the 'victim' who is to be doubted; never the rapist.

What is wrong with people?

MiniMonty Sun 05-May-13 02:39:52

There is no asking for it.
There is only having it done to you.
Whether you understand what's being done to you or not - and children don't and can't understand what's being done to them if they are being abused.
"asking for it" is an horrifically stupid notion.

Are you asking to be raped if you wear a mini skirt?
Are you asking to be beaten to death if you wear the wrong football shirt in the wrong pub?

Deeply strange people walk among us and we are wise to watch out for them (and then lock 'em up for ever).

Springdiva Sun 05-May-13 05:11:27

I think back in the 60s/70s women or girls could be considered to be seen to be asking for it. There were nice girls and tarts, nice girls didn't and tarts got what they deserved. So if a girl was 'asking for it', or could be described that way, then there was little sympathy. I remember starting secondary school and gossiping with pals about an older girl who was 'having it off' (according to the school gossip) with one of the teachers. There was total disdain for her but none for the teacher. I would only have been 12 at the time but that is just to demonstrate how it was (1966).

It's why the Magdalene laundries were allowed to flourish, locking up girls because they had been interfered with, or whatever, unbelievable by today's standards but it was the attitude that girls were 'bad' so deserved what they got.

I'm not justifying anything, it's great that these old gits are getting prosecuted, it will create a lot of publicity so there will surely be more fear of getting caught in the future so hopefully less abuse.

CheerfulYank Sun 05-May-13 05:45:39

My brother (a total asshole by any standards) was saying of a teenage girl in the town we live in, "X (another teenage girl) says she's a total slut, she was caught giving blowjobs when she was nine."

I went completely nuclear on him...that's not a "slut" (though frankly he'd be one to talk), that's an abused child. angry

Ugghhh. So glad he is not a part of my children's lives.

Buzzardbird Sun 05-May-13 06:36:34

I had an argument with 2 women last week who were saying that these abused children were just reporting it now for the money. I happen to know that the one woman's own dd was abused around the age of 4 for years. No surprise that the woman does not know anything about this and the child in her mid 40's has suffered all her life.
These attitudes to the victims of grown men who knew damn well what they were doing sickens me physically.
How can people be such idiots?

JennyMackerz Sun 05-May-13 11:08:09

Cheerful yank, good for you. I think men who confuse an abused child with a girl who's asking for it - if their forcefield of entitlement and delusion is EVER pierced, even slightly, it will be by a female member of their family. I think they understand that their sisters are people , but a nine year old giving a blow job is a bad girl?? that is so sad.

I agree that any child whose mother brought her as a sacrifice to these slebs was abused twice.

No child can consent to having sex. This point clearly needs to be hammered home. There are still people (and people on mumsnet who dn't get it - and this would be a more evolved vox pop than average)

b4bunnies Sun 05-May-13 14:08:49

mn isn't 'evolved'. there is a mn outlook and you deviate from it at your own risk.

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