to finally be able to say there has been too much immigration

(507 Posts)
moogy1a Fri 03-May-13 08:29:59

Now that UKIP have made massive gains in local elections,conservatives stating that major changes need to be made and labour admit that they made a big mistake in having an almost open door policy can I finally say this in public without the hysterical accusations of being racist?

moogy1a Fri 03-May-13 09:29:52

Stoic yes I was referencing the fact that all major parties and UKIP have admitted there is a problem.
I wasn't actually supporting any one party above another.

PatPig Fri 03-May-13 09:29:54

Of course there has been far too much immigration.

Net migration 1970 to 1996: 139,000 (in 26 years)
Net migration 1997 to 2010: 3.2 million (in 13 years)

And the Tories are doing nothing to resolve the issues of disgustingly high house prices, and are blithely saying 'Romanians won't want to come to the UK'.

No wonder people voted for UKIP.

Immigrants are individually mostly delightful, but we are not like the US or Australia where you can just find a patch of dirt and build a house. The UK has been preserved in aspic since WW2 largely. And people, on the whole, support this policy.

So where the fuck are all these millions supposed to live?

ParmaViolette Fri 03-May-13 09:31:27

yawn

A welfare state, social housing, free and efficient healthcare and world class education cannot be achieved when you have an open door EU policy and lax attitude to everywhere else.

However, this is ignored by the the far left. They want all the benefits of a Scandinavian socialist paradise, without even adopting their policy to immigration to match (there's no open EU door there!)

I'm fairly centrist, and think UKIP are absolutely insane- but I'm glad of their existence if it forces the main parties to rethink their EU policies.

moogy1a Fri 03-May-13 09:32:02

"So where the fuck are all these millions supposed to live?"
on greenbelt which will really enhance the country.

hermioneweasley Fri 03-May-13 09:32:40

I don't know who would be staffing our building and service industries without immigration. Am I naive - have these terrible foreigners shoved hard working Brits out of the queues for interviews?

moogy1a Fri 03-May-13 09:35:36

yes hermione, you are being naiive. Many people in the service industry have no work visa so are open to exploitation and work for less than the minimum wage therefore removing the opportunity of a properly paid job from a citizen of the country.

ParmaViolette Fri 03-May-13 09:36:07

Not to mention, must of the people who pooh-pooh the statement 'immigration is a problem' tend to not know any undercut-by-migrant-workers tradesmen unless their marble worktops are being fitted by one, have kids in grammar schools and live in a lovely houses far away from the money wiring shops and international SIM street sellers

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PatPig Fri 03-May-13 09:38:43

The reality is our country is small enough that an open door policy wrt just ONE small Eastern European country is not sustainable.

If we had an open door policy wrt the world, then the country would change completely.

CelticPixie Fri 03-May-13 09:39:45

I think we should adopt a points system like they have in Australia. I don't think anyone objects to immigrants coming to the UK if they have a skill or trade that will contribute to our economy, what I do the I gets people's backs up is people coming to the UK because they think its a soft touch. Call me a racist if you like but I don't think that immigrants should be entitled to any kind of social housing or benefits until they've lived here and contributed for at least five years. Schools, hospitals and other public services are people pushed to breaking point at the moment.

Interestingly a friend of my dad works for a a major international company and was asked to go over to the USA to do the same job he does here. However US immigration refused to allow him a VISA because according to them there are American citizens who could do the job that he does. Which is of course correct, why can't we be more like that?

I'm afraid while I despise the BNP and other far right parties I can see the appeal of UKIP.

hermioneweasley Fri 03-May-13 09:41:30

Moogy, I'm sorry, I simply don't believe that national chains are hiring illegal workers and have a policy of paying less than NMW. I am sure there are cases of exploitation, but it doesn't explain why (certainly in the SE) everywhere you go you are served by someone from whom English is not a first language.

moogy1a Fri 03-May-13 09:47:21

national chains don't but there are thousands of small businesses that do.
I know plenty of young people who would love a job but with the pressure from so many immigrants there are tens and sometimes hundreds of people applying for even the most menial of jobs.
remember this?
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/more-than-1700-people-apply-for-just-eight-jobs-at-costa-coffee-shop-8501329.html

gordyslovesheep Fri 03-May-13 09:49:37

so people are being exploited, poorly treated, working in unsafe conditions for piss poor wages ...and YOUR concern is they are taking 'our' jobs - that sums it up nicely

I am left wing - I grew up in a single parent family in Liverpool (oldest Afro Caribbean community in Europe, second oldest Chinese community in UK ) and have lived and worked in Birmingham for the past 18 years - so you are totally wrong about 'middle class lefties' who don't live in areas where immigration has an impact

FreudiansSlipper Fri 03-May-13 09:50:36

Immigration has been badly managed in some parts of the country, having large areas populated by immigrants that are already struggling with services, jobs and housing has made the problem worse it gives those who already struggling a target to blame rather than the government this is mainly who UKIP and the BNP have targeted to gain votes and it has worked

Nigel Farage was once again banging on about the 29 million bulgarians who shall be heading over here next year wanting our housing and using our nhs where is the proof that there is going to be a mass exodus from bulgaria ask any homeless person on the street they probably will say i want to go to x,y or z they want a better life does it mean they will do

UKIP want to ignore the real reasons for our economy being in crises as talking about the financial situation and the global recession is too complicated far easier to point to immigrants in our society, something we can nearly all relate to as being the reason the uk is struggling

gordyslovesheep Fri 03-May-13 09:50:50

I also work with young unemployed people - I totally disagree with your last post - the issue is the lack of suitable jobs for 16-18 year olds, not immigration

moogy1a Fri 03-May-13 09:52:05

Yes I am concerned that there aren't enough jobs, or enough school places, and that maternity services are at breaking point, and that greenbelt land is being built on to provide housing .
I don't think I mentioned "middle class lefties??"

ParmaViolette Fri 03-May-13 09:53:48

Hermione- my experience of working in minimum wage jobs is that migrant workers want as many hours as possible, and will be prepared to pick up any shifts and unsociable overtime. A situation that springs to mind is a lovely young polish girl who used to regularly work 2 week stretches with no days off, as she had to send money home and also had no commitments.

Management told me that they're more attractive workers as they do the stuff that British workers who have the audacity to ask for a weekend off, or swap shifts are to attend an event, won't do.

Obviously this isn't the case or every migrant worker- but I've had a lot of minimum wage jobs, and it seems to be a recurring feature. They're getting paid national minimum wage, but still being exploited by the fact that they're easily pressured to stay on late and forfeit days off due to a mix of needing as much £££ as possible and not knowing their rights.

Dawndonna Fri 03-May-13 09:54:52

Born and bred in Wimbledon, went to school in Putney. Champagne socialist parents. No longer there but well aware of the impact and still won't vote for UKIP.

gordyslovesheep Fri 03-May-13 09:56:09

no YOU didn't ...it has been raised by others as part of the discussion - which I am responding to ...

Maternity services have been slashed - the NHS has been cut to buggery - look beyond the simple 'blame the Jews immigrants arguments ...and do you SERIOUSLY think immigrants are going to be buying 4 bed detached houses on prime greenbelt land in the south - really?????

Mumsyblouse Fri 03-May-13 09:58:22

Call me a racist if you like but I don't think that immigrants should be entitled to any kind of social housing or benefits until they've lived here and contributed for at least five years.

Can I just point out that most immigrants from non-EU have no recourse to public funds, that's what stamped on their passports, that's what my husband's passport said for years. So, he paid taxes in the UK for a decade but wouldn't have been protected if he'd been made unemployed, which was fine by us, we always knew if there was trouble, we would have no benefits and have never claimed anything (beyond my own claim for child benefit).

It's only within the EU that there is access to benefits, because of the open door policy within the EU although different member states do have some restrictions on these. But these economic migrants in general tend to be quite young and hard-working and there's evidence that they claim less than the general indigenous UK population.

Wallison Fri 03-May-13 09:58:56

The reason why there are not enough houses is because not enough houses are being built, particularly social housing. This has nothing to do with immigration but to do with the rise in single-person households and divorce rates.

The reason that welfare spending has been slashed is because we have a govt in power that is ideologically opposed to the welfare state and are hell-bent on dismantling it under the guise of 'necessary spending cuts'. Again, this is nothing to do with immigration. The vast majority of welfare spending is on pensions. Again, nothing to do with immigration.

The reason that the NHS is on the brink of collapse is because successive govts have hived off parts of it on massive contracts to corrupt and inefficient bidders, who are their mates. Also created a culture of obscenely well-paid middle management who do fuck all. Again, nothing to do with immigration.

If you think the problems with housing, welfare benefits and the NHS are to do with immigration you are woefully misinformed. And, yes, a racist.

gordyslovesheep Fri 03-May-13 10:00:36

our massive NHS dental practice is staffed almost entirely by young, qualified EU dentists who come here to gain further training - they are brilliant !

Abra1d Fri 03-May-13 10:01:01

There is a 30% correlation with increased immigration, Wallison. I accept divorce as the main contributory factor.

Abra1d Fri 03-May-13 10:02:24

The Department for Communities and Local Government assumes that migration accounts for nearly 40 percent of the annual increase in households in England (252,000 new households per year)

moogy1a Fri 03-May-13 10:02:34

So an increase of 7 million over the next 20 years has no impact on housing?
and 3 million since 1997?
At least acknowledge that causes the country to need more houses?
www.migrationwatchuk.co.uk/briefingPaper/document/144

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